Hard 600-700 ratios problem. please advise

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Hard 600-700 ratios problem. please advise

by rtaha2412 » Mon Oct 18, 2010 10:58 am
The ratio by volume of soap to alcohol to water is 2:50:100. The solution will be altered so that the ratio of soap to alcohol is doubled while the ratio of soap to water is halved. If the altered solution will contain 100 cubic centimeters of alcohol, how many cubic centimeters of water will it contain?


a 50
b 200
c 400
d 625
e 800
Source: — Problem Solving |

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by shovan85 » Mon Oct 18, 2010 11:21 am
S:A:W = 2:50:100

Altered
S:A = 4:50 (ratio doubled)
S:W = 1:100 (halved)
=>S:W = 4:400 (as we have Soap:Alcohol in altered is 4:50, we need 4 for Soap here )
So new ratio S':A':W' = 4:50:400
We can rephrase Soap = 4y, Alcohol = 50y, Water=400y

Now 50y = 100 cubic centimeters
=> 400y = 800 cubic centimeters

IMO E
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by Brian@VeritasPrep » Mon Oct 18, 2010 11:27 am
Hey rtaha2412:

I like this question and a pretty healthy takeaway that it brings up: When you're dealing with three-part problems (ratios, inequalities, etc.) it's often best to break them into two, two-part problems so that you can perform the algebra more easily.

In this problem, the ratio of:

Soap: Alcohol: Water is
2: 50: 100

Which means that you have multiple two-part ratios:

S:A = 2:50
S:W = 2:100
A:W = 50:100

When they say to double the ratio of soap to alcohol, it's probably best to see that ratio as a fraction (2/50) which makes it easier to "double" (2/50 * 2 = 4/50) to 4/50.

Then they say to halve (divide by 2) the ratio of soap to water: 1/2 * 2/100 = 1/100.

So now you have two ratios:

Soap:Alcohol = 4:50, or you could say 2:25

Soap:Water = 1:100

Now, when dealing with multi-part ratios/inequalities/etc., the key becomes putting it all back together around the common variable. Here, that common term is soap, which we express as 2 (in the 2:25 ratio) and as 1 (in the 1:100 ratio). In order to have a common ratio, we need to have soap in the same terms, and 2 is the Least Common Multiple. To get common terms, we then express the ratios with a base of 2 for soap:

Soap:Alcohol = 2:25
Soap: Water = 2:200

Soap:Alcohol:Water = 2:25:200

Because we now then have 100 cubic centimeters of alcohol, we need to multiply everything by 4 to keep it relative (because our base for alcohol is 25), so we would then have:

8:100:800

And therefore there are 800 ccs of water, and the correct answer is E.


As a big-picture takeaway, when you have a 3-part ratio or inequality, it's often best to break it into two 2-part problems, and then you have to synchronize your results around that common term to finish if off.
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by pzazz12 » Wed Oct 20, 2010 12:13 am
shovan85 wrote:S:A:W = 2:50:100

Altered
S:A = 4:50 (ratio doubled)
S:W = 1:100 (halved)
=>S:W = 4:400 (as we have Soap:Alcohol in altered is 4:50, we need 4 for Soap here )
So new ratio S':A':W' = 4:50:400
We can rephrase Soap = 4y, Alcohol = 50y, Water=400y

Now 50y = 100 cubic centimeters
=> 400y = 800 cubic centimeters

IMO E
thank u.. for me a little bit confusing can u explain me clearly.....

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by shovan85 » Wed Oct 20, 2010 1:08 am
pzazz12 wrote:
shovan85 wrote:S:A:W = 2:50:100

Altered
S:A = 4:50 (ratio doubled)
S:W = 1:100 (halved)
=>S:W = 4:400 (as we have Soap:Alcohol in altered is 4:50, we need 4 for Soap here )
So new ratio S':A':W' = 4:50:400
We can rephrase Soap = 4y, Alcohol = 50y, Water=400y

Now 50y = 100 cubic centimeters
=> 400y = 800 cubic centimeters

IMO E
thank u.. for me a little bit confusing can u explain me clearly.....
S:A:W = 2:50:100 (I have abbreviated Soap as S, Alcohol as A and Water as W)

So breaking down S:A = 2:50 (or we can say 2/50)

Now, double this ratio, then S':A' = 4:50 (I have abbreviated Soap in the NEW ratio as S', Alcohol as A')

Again breaking down the old ratio S:W = 2:100 (or we can say 2/100)

Now, half this ratio, then S':W' = 1:100 (I have abbreviated Water in the NEW ratio as W')


Thus we have the total scenario for the new ratio (after the modifications done as per the Question)

S':A' = 4:50 and S':W' = 1:100

What is common to both of the ratio: It is SOAP.

For better understandability let me rephrase the two ratios as below:

4 parts of Soap to 50 parts Alcohol
and
1 part of Soap to 100 parts of Water
=> 4 parts of Soap to 4*100 = 400 parts Water

Now, to the balanced new ratio is 4:50:400

So new ratio S':A':W' = 4:50:400

We can say Soap = 4y, Alcohol = 50y, Water=400y

Now 50y = 100 cubic centimeters
=> 400y = 800 cubic centimeters

Hope this is clear.
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by selango » Wed Oct 20, 2010 1:40 am
S:A:W=2:50:100

Altered ratio
----------------------------------

S':A'=4:50 or S'/A'=4/50-->1

S':W'=1:100 or S'/W'=1/100-->2

2/1 gives,


A'/W'=1/8

The new ratio is S':A':W' 4:50:400

Given alcohol is 100 units

Multiply new ratio by 2

S':A':W'=8:100:800

Water =800 units


Hope this clarify!!!
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by fskilnik@GMATH » Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:49 am
rtaha2412 and pzazz12:

Let me show you a "different way" of dealing with double ratios, through a tool that I "created" to help students deal with the ratios involved. The reason why "the bridge technique" works is, in fact, explained in the posts above but I guess that the "merit" of this tool is exactly to be able to deal with this arguments "internally" (that is, without our explicit actions).

I hope you like it.

Regards,
Fabio.




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by goyalsau » Wed Oct 20, 2010 3:53 am
fskilnik wrote:rtaha2412 and pzazz12:

Let me show you a "different way" of dealing with double ratios, through a tool that I "created" to help students deal with the ratios involved. The reason why "the bridge technique" works is, in fact, explained in the posts above but I guess that the "merit" of this tool is exactly to be able to deal with this arguments "internally" (that is, without our explicit actions).

I hope you like it.

Regards,
Fabio.




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awesome Technique...
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by fskilnik@GMATH » Wed Oct 20, 2010 11:08 am
goyalsau wrote:awesome Technique...
Thank you, goyalsau, but I must say that all that I did (years ago) was to "combine" the ideas shown above in an easy-to-understand diagram, just that. (Brian´s solution is really the same thing that I did, compare!)

There is another (much harder) double ratio problem that I also answered here (look for "alloy" in the post name)... have a look at it because it is also important, as far as technique is concerned. Rahul´s solution (there) is also important, be sure you understand mine and his.

Regards,
Fabio.
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