WHICH CAT IS BEST REP OF GMAT VERBAL (APART FROM GPREP)?

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Hi folks,

Iam facing a dilemma here.The verbal score in Verbal,GMATprep,Manhattan is on much variance.

The GMATprep is showing V31-32
MGMAT V40-41
VERITAS V37

What to do now?.The MGMAT gives V41-42 on even 14 to 12 incorrect, GMATprep gives V31 on even 11-10 in corrrect (regardless of doing it in SC, RC, CR in a 2-3 string, before after first 20 etc.).

Summary:
I have come to terms now that there is no other CAT to predict correct verbal of even +/-5 except GMATprep...and that means there is no place for error to of > 5 questions to get above V40.Is this the case?

Pretty much in a corner, because I'm usually having 2-3 wrong in RC,2-3 in SC and 2-4 maybe in CR.

Your ideas will be much appreciated.!

Thx,

Aslan
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by hcueva » Tue Nov 23, 2010 8:37 pm
and that means there is no place for error to of > 5 questions to get above V40.Is this the case?
I just took my first GMATPrep, and the breakdown was:

Q 50, 10 incorrect, 4 incorrect in a row
V 42, 7 incorrect, none incorrect in a row

I don't think a percentage of incorrect answers is a good indicator of your score.

PS. V42 happens to be the exact average V score I had on my MGMAT CATs.

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by aslan » Wed Nov 24, 2010 3:30 am
@hcueva: hmm...try getting out of the 10 range...and GMATprep will really dip your score unlike MGMAT.

There were also no incorrect for me in rows.GMATprep is not very adaptive going in verbal

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by kola_member » Sat Nov 27, 2010 11:03 am
aslan wrote:Hi folks,

Iam facing a dilemma here.The verbal score in Verbal,GMATprep,Manhattan is on much variance.

The GMATprep is showing V31-32
MGMAT V40-41
VERITAS V37

What to do now?.The MGMAT gives V41-42 on even 14 to 12 incorrect, GMATprep gives V31 on even 11-10 in corrrect (regardless of doing it in SC, RC, CR in a 2-3 string, before after first 20 etc.).

Summary:
I have come to terms now that there is no other CAT to predict correct verbal of even +/-5 except GMATprep...and that means there is no place for error to of > 5 questions to get above V40.Is this the case?

Pretty much in a corner, because I'm usually having 2-3 wrong in RC,2-3 in SC and 2-4 maybe in CR.

Your ideas will be much appreciated.!

Thx,

Aslan
Hi ,
I think you already feel it, but i will say this to make it clear- GMATprep is the most accurate indicator of your scaled score.. It is indeed difficult to get more than 40 in V after >7 questions wrong. And it will drop further if you get a string of wrong ones.Also, getting wrong ones in first 10-12 will matter more in both V&Q.

Hope that helps

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by aslan » Sat Nov 27, 2010 11:22 am
thanks kola..yeah I feel the same.

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by rishab1988 » Sat Nov 27, 2010 2:24 pm
I don't agree with your logic of incorrect questions. I have got a 39 on verbal on GMATPREP with 12 incorrect questions.

I have got a 40 on verbal with 8 incorrect and a 38 on verbal with 13 incorrect,when I took it 1 month back.

I must add that on GMATPREP I got only 2 SC wrong and 2 CR wrong.Also in Rc I got all main point and purpose questions right.I got most of the infer questions wrong on GMATPrep.

So you could probably infer that I literally killed two sections in the verbal so I wasn't penalized that much.You on ther other hand might have gotten an even split -4 SC 4 CR and 5 RC .This split is worse than mine because my split shows that I have far superior SC and CR skills than you have.This,alternatively,means that the algorithm will throw at me SC questions,which,many a time, are back to back, that are much tougher than yours'.If I keep on getting those questions right,the algorithm will award me for that.

I agree that on some questions in MGMAT CR the correct answer seems a bit far fetched as compared to that in GmatPrep.Same can be said about question stems of the CR questions,which are sometimes ambiguous.I also agree that the correct answer on RC seems a bit far fetched.Gmat requires you to infer very little (in RC questions).Literally,the correct answer is stated in the passage, but MGMAT RC infer questions sometimes require you to make,according to me, a far fetched inference.

These are the only thing that I can think of are affecting you score on GMATPrep.You just aren't used to the real test's format in the sense that you are solving for X when the question might be asking for Y.

Many people make a big mistake in CR that they straight away jump into the premise without thinking about what the question really is asking,but since you have gotten used to those stems you get those questions right.Many times MGMAT uses the term support for meaning strengthen,depending on the direction of the argument obviously.But the GMATPrep explicitly,most of the times,states strengthens.The GMATPrep states explicitly inferred/must be true for inference questions,but MGMAT still uses the term support.

These things might be causing you to get questions wrong,which you should have gotten right.

Therefore,the GMATPrep awards you a much lower score.

Honestly speaking,I would say GMATPrep verbal is of the same level as MGMAT if not easier.The only difference is that GMATPrep uses a more crisp and clear language than MGMAT.

1 more point that I must add is that in MGMAT the questions in verbal are significantly tougher (700-800) when you get them right,that is,if you get a 80% question right,it will straight away throw at you a 700-800 question and if you this too right,your percentile eill shoot to 90%+.

Whereas in GMATPrep,the questions virtually are of almost same difficulty.The GMATprep inference questions in CR,especially,are way easier than MGMAT CR questions,which are next only to LSAT CR questions.

As a result a person,who gets say 10-13 questions wrong on MGMAT,will get much fewer questions wrong on GMATPRep.

I don't know whether you see assessment reports,but I definitely do.You will notice in that the number of questions,especially CR,are almost the same as the number of SC questions and RC questions.

So if you are really good at CR and RC in MGMAT CAT you could,possibly,still achieve a good score.But in GMATprep almsot 17-18 questions are SC,13-15 RC and barely 11-13 CR.

If you are really weak in SC,this weakness will be very apparent in GMATPrep because at same % you will get much more questions wrong.Since SC ,as commonly believed,is the easiest to improve on,getting a SC question wrong,which moost of people would have gotten right,would severely hurt your score.

Also,it is commonly known that the toughest section in verbal to improve on is RC,getting a RC question would shave off much smaller points from your score.

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by aslan » Sat Nov 27, 2010 4:51 pm
@rishab1988:

You have added some new points with the number of wrong on verbal of 12 q.Up till now, most of the people have reported lower scores when getting out of the 10 range on (GMAT prep R & D by machoman for instance on BTG).

I also agree that compared to MCAT, GMATprep throws a lot of SC, whereas MCAT starts off directly with a CR.So if you are basically good with CR and RC..you may be skewed high from the start.On the GMATprep, the start is usually with a SC and if someone starts committing some wrong answers with the low level SC, the score starts dipping (relatively) as a result.

I also agree that the MCAT unnecessarily uses tediously long phrases in its CR and SC.Compared to this usage in MCAT; GMATprep makes use of very succinct problems and answers in the options.

I will obviously have to give some more tries to actually settle down with the GMATprep strategy in verbal!

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by kola_member » Sun Nov 28, 2010 10:41 am
As you might have seen in CATS, GMAT penalizes wrong verbal answers more severely than quant.I would not want to bet i will get higher score than what i am getting now in mock in that, it would be too risky. On the other hand, as it penalizes you hard, it also rewards you highly on accuracy.So to improve your hit rate...on all three parts of the verbal, that would be ideal.... & of-course the need to work more on topics troubling you.

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by Night reader » Sun Nov 28, 2010 12:26 pm
GmatPrep is a CAT and not the knowledge avenue. By taking CAT(s) we get used to likelihood of the GMAT content. This is true with Verbal part of the GMATPrep tests too. To raise score in the Verbal there are different options: one is OG12 where 70% of the verbal questions are clustered around 550-600 level. If we solve 600-level question it is not to be assumed that we must select the correct choice always (the scaled score of 35-36 in Verbal). 600-level questions are answered by 50% of test takers correctly and those who score within the 600-level range - they compose the other 50% - still select incorrect answers.

Aslan, there is no way by trying to decipher algorithm of GMATPrep to raise the Verbal percentile. I had already disassembled the software program and read its body functions. What now? Will I be able to score higher in GMAT by knowing which score level questions weather my percentile?

It is just the waste of time; grab some recommended stuff for the Verbal and improve your weak areas. The building blocks of knowledge require strong cement.
My knowledge frontiers came to evolve the GMATPill's methods - the credited study means to boost the Verbal competence. I really like their videos, especially for RC, CR and SC. You do check their study methods at https://www.gmatpill.com

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by aslan » Sun Nov 28, 2010 12:45 pm
@Night reader:

I never try to use GMATprep or any other CAT as building blocks..rather as indicators to where I stand in terms of pacing and time management.

After a while of doing questions from different sources you always need to analyze in terms of time management in a sitting of 75 mins; whether it be for quant or verbal.

I believe that OG12 does have some upper bin questions on its last 30 or so questions, but the trouble is that they have been discussed so much and done so often in an un-timed manner that they loose their edge in terms of difficulty.Thats why if someone gets the chance to do GMAT preparation, he should reserve doing OG after going over all the basis, but not use the OG as building the basis.

I also think the best practice material (if you are looking for plus 700 level questions) are also in some of the BTG questions.Just search for the topics that you feel you need some building on and it will give you a fairly good practice with its stop watch, in addition to many insights from experts.