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GMAT Prep repeats OG

by sharmasumitn1 » Sun May 22, 2011 7:26 pm
Hi,

I just finished my first GMAT Prep and scored 760 ( Quant 50 and Verbal 42)
I noticed that i got couple of OG 12 questions in verbal section.
Is this normal? How should i assess my performance ?

Experts, please advise.
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by lunarpower » Tue May 24, 2011 5:30 am
sharmasumitn1 wrote:Hi,

I just finished my first GMAT Prep and scored 760 ( Quant 50 and Verbal 42)
I noticed that i got couple of OG 12 questions in verbal section.
Is this normal? How should i assess my performance ?

Experts, please advise.
the statistical effect isn't totally predictable, but a very rough approximation is that each repeated problem artificially increases your score by ≈ 10-15 points.
if you notice the repeated question and answer it *immediately* -- thus also adding artificial extra time to your test -- then the statistical effect could be as great as 15-20 points/problem.

... but, if you're scoring that high, then you've got some room to move. (:
Ron has been teaching various standardized tests for 20 years.

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by sharmasumitn1 » Tue May 24, 2011 6:50 am
lunarpower wrote:
sharmasumitn1 wrote:Hi,

I just finished my first GMAT Prep and scored 760 ( Quant 50 and Verbal 42)
I noticed that i got couple of OG 12 questions in verbal section.
Is this normal? How should i assess my performance ?

Experts, please advise.
the statistical effect isn't totally predictable, but a very rough approximation is that each repeated problem artificially increases your score by ≈ 10-15 points.
if you notice the repeated question and answer it *immediately* -- thus also adding artificial extra time to your test -- then the statistical effect could be as great as 15-20 points/problem.

... but, if you're scoring that high, then you've got some room to move. (:
Thanks Ron,

it is indeed difficult to predict the effect of repeated questions. Even if i remember the question, i still have some work to do to arrive at correct answer. The amount of effort required is obviously less than that for fresh questions.

I used MGMAT mainly for timing and speed. In the MGMAT CATs, i scored in the range of 680-710. I struggled in timing and speed in all the MGMAT CATs.

I also wrote Kaplan CAT CD test and scored 670. The Kaplan CD test is not at all representative of GMAT. The RC are way too longer and complex and the scoring algorithm is also not accurate. The quant section is way too easy. I just made two mistakes in it.

I will write GMAT Prep 2 test next weekend. I hope i dont get any question from OG this time. I have exhausted all MGMAT CATs.
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by lunarpower » Thu May 26, 2011 1:56 pm
sharmasumitn1 wrote:Thanks Ron,
I used MGMAT mainly for timing and speed. In the MGMAT CATs, i scored in the range of 680-710. I struggled in timing and speed in all the MGMAT CATs.
our cat's are good for timing/speed practice; it is generally acknowledged that time pressure on our tests is a little bit more intense than on the real exam. (although our tests contain a few questions that are probably too long/too many steps, the main reason for this difference is that there are no experimental questions on our tests -- so that, if you are scoring high, then ALL of the questions that you see are relatively difficult questions. by contrast, on the real test, you always get 10 or so experimental questions per section -- and the difficulty of those questions is distributed at random. therefore, some of the experimental questions should be quick enough to give you somewhat of a respite from the usual intensity of time management.)
I also wrote Kaplan CAT CD test and scored 670. The Kaplan CD test is not at all representative of GMAT. The RC are way too longer and complex and the scoring algorithm is also not accurate. The quant section is way too easy. I just made two mistakes in it.
i don't know much about the kaplan tests -- i'll retain this feedback as a "data point".
i have noticed that kaplan cat #1 seems to be absurdly hard -- i've routinely seeing students scoring over 100 points lower on their cat #1 than on their other cat's, even when they have taken those tests rapid-fire with little or no studying in between -- but i don't know much about those tests other than that.
in general, the scores i've seen students get on kaplan's tests (except cat #1) have been decently close to the scores they've gotten on the real test.
I will write GMAT Prep 2 test next weekend. I hope i dont get any question from OG this time. I have exhausted all MGMAT CATs.
ok, post an update when you have one.
Ron has been teaching various standardized tests for 20 years.

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by sharmasumitn1 » Sun May 29, 2011 8:00 am
lunarpower wrote:
sharmasumitn1 wrote:Thanks Ron,
I used MGMAT mainly for timing and speed. In the MGMAT CATs, i scored in the range of 680-710. I struggled in timing and speed in all the MGMAT CATs.
our cat's are good for timing/speed practice; it is generally acknowledged that time pressure on our tests is a little bit more intense than on the real exam. (although our tests contain a few questions that are probably too long/too many steps, the main reason for this difference is that there are no experimental questions on our tests -- so that, if you are scoring high, then ALL of the questions that you see are relatively difficult questions. by contrast, on the real test, you always get 10 or so experimental questions per section -- and the difficulty of those questions is distributed at random. therefore, some of the experimental questions should be quick enough to give you somewhat of a respite from the usual intensity of time management.)
I also wrote Kaplan CAT CD test and scored 670. The Kaplan CD test is not at all representative of GMAT. The RC are way too longer and complex and the scoring algorithm is also not accurate. The quant section is way too easy. I just made two mistakes in it.
i don't know much about the kaplan tests -- i'll retain this feedback as a "data point".
i have noticed that kaplan cat #1 seems to be absurdly hard -- i've routinely seeing students scoring over 100 points lower on their cat #1 than on their other cat's, even when they have taken those tests rapid-fire with little or no studying in between -- but i don't know much about those tests other than that.
in general, the scores i've seen students get on kaplan's tests (except cat #1) have been decently close to the scores they've gotten on the real test.
I will write GMAT Prep 2 test next weekend. I hope i dont get any question from OG this time. I have exhausted all MGMAT CATs.
ok, post an update when you have one.
Ron,

I wrote GMAT Prep 2 yesterday and scored 710, Quant 49 Verbal 38
I missed 11 questions each in each sections. This time i wrote AWA essays as well. I struggled a bit in AWA. i ran out of time in analysis of an argument. I struggled in Quant as well for the timing. I barely finished the quant section. I managed verbal regarding the timing better than the quant section. However, surprisingly, i missed 8 sentence correction questions. I missed two in CR and one in RC. I missed 11 DS in Quant section. This time i got all new questions in GMATPrep. I am not very happy with my performance in AWA, Quant and Verbal sections. I have two weeks left. I will practice AWA and revise the SC concepts.
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by lunarpower » Wed Jun 01, 2011 5:56 am
sharmasumitn1 wrote:I wrote GMAT Prep 2 yesterday and scored 710, Quant 49 Verbal 38
I missed 11 questions each in each sections. This time i wrote AWA essays as well. I struggled a bit in AWA. i ran out of time in analysis of an argument. I struggled in Quant as well for the timing. I barely finished the quant section. I managed verbal regarding the timing better than the quant section. However, surprisingly, i missed 8 sentence correction questions. I missed two in CR and one in RC. I missed 11 DS in Quant section. This time i got all new questions in GMATPrep. I am not very happy with my performance in AWA, Quant and Verbal sections. I have two weeks left. I will practice AWA and revise the SC concepts.
a couple of things:
* from what you've written here, it appears that you missed 11 data sufficiency questions and 0 problem solving questions (!!).
if that's the case, then these results indicate that you have no problem at all with any of the mathematical concepts, but then you still have severe problems with the fundamental architecture of data sufficiency -- in simpler words, this means that you don't quite understand the basic functioning of DS problems yet.
this isn't an uncommon situation -- even for relatively high-scoring students -- because data sufficiency is a weird problem type that you probably haven't seen anywhere else. the problem, though, is that people try to address this issue by just studying more math concepts; that approach isn't going to get you anywhere.
before you start the work for ANY data sufficiency problem, make sure that you have explicit and exact answers to the following three questions:
1) EXACTLY WHAT does the problem call for?
2) EXACTLY WHAT would be SUFFICIENT?
3) EXACTLY WHAT would be INSUFFICIENT?
these may seem like obvious questions, but i've worked with many students who have a severe discrepancy (like yours) between their DS and PS performances; in every single case, the student's main problem was that he/she didn't figure out the answers to these three questions explicitly enough -- in other words, the student was basically working the problem without understanding what he/she was supposed to be doing.

for more on this, see the APRIL 14, 2011 lecture here:
https://www.manhattangmat.com/thursdays-with-ron.cfm

obviously your score of Q49 indicates that this issue is not crippling you, but, with a little more attention to these concepts, you could move on up to Q51 (which is the highest possible quant score).
Ron has been teaching various standardized tests for 20 years.

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by sharmasumitn1 » Wed Jun 01, 2011 7:05 am
lunarpower wrote:
sharmasumitn1 wrote:I wrote GMAT Prep 2 yesterday and scored 710, Quant 49 Verbal 38
I missed 11 questions each in each sections. This time i wrote AWA essays as well. I struggled a bit in AWA. i ran out of time in analysis of an argument. I struggled in Quant as well for the timing. I barely finished the quant section. I managed verbal regarding the timing better than the quant section. However, surprisingly, i missed 8 sentence correction questions. I missed two in CR and one in RC. I missed 11 DS in Quant section. This time i got all new questions in GMATPrep. I am not very happy with my performance in AWA, Quant and Verbal sections. I have two weeks left. I will practice AWA and revise the SC concepts.
a couple of things:
* from what you've written here, it appears that you missed 11 data sufficiency questions and 0 problem solving questions (!!).
if that's the case, then these results indicate that you have no problem at all with any of the mathematical concepts, but then you still have severe problems with the fundamental architecture of data sufficiency -- in simpler words, this means that you don't quite understand the basic functioning of DS problems yet.
this isn't an uncommon situation -- even for relatively high-scoring students -- because data sufficiency is a weird problem type that you probably haven't seen anywhere else. the problem, though, is that people try to address this issue by just studying more math concepts; that approach isn't going to get you anywhere.
before you start the work for ANY data sufficiency problem, make sure that you have explicit and exact answers to the following three questions:
1) EXACTLY WHAT does the problem call for?
2) EXACTLY WHAT would be SUFFICIENT?
3) EXACTLY WHAT would be INSUFFICIENT?
these may seem like obvious questions, but i've worked with many students who have a severe discrepancy (like yours) between their DS and PS performances; in every single case, the student's main problem was that he/she didn't figure out the answers to these three questions explicitly enough -- in other words, the student was basically working the problem without understanding what he/she was supposed to be doing.

for more on this, see the APRIL 14, 2011 lecture here:
https://www.manhattangmat.com/thursdays-with-ron.cfm

obviously your score of Q49 indicates that this issue is not crippling you, but, with a little more attention to these concepts, you could move on up to Q51 (which is the highest possible quant score).
Thanks Ron for the suggestions. I will keep these in mind while attempting the quant section.
One of the reasons behind the poor performance was AWA section and poor time management. I attempted AWA section for the first time and that affected my overall focus and time management. I am working on AWA and i hope that with practice i will not have to work as much on AWA as i had to in the last mock test. Clearly, AWA affects overall score.
I will write couple of more tests and update you.
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