My Wrong Ones...

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by goyalsau » Thu Oct 21, 2010 8:01 am
Guys What about These 2 questions.


The line AB of length 6 m is a tangent to the inner one of the two concentric circles at point C and a chord to the outer circle. Find the radius of the outer circle if both the radii have integer values.

(B) 4 m
(C) 6 m
(A) 5 m
(D) 3 m
(E) 7 m

If the radius of a sphere is increased by 2 cm, its surface area increases by 352 cm2 . The radius of sphere before the change is

(A) 3 cm
(C) 6 cm
(D) 7 cm
(B) 4 cm
(E) 5 cm
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by shovan85 » Thu Oct 21, 2010 8:55 am
goyalsau wrote:Guys What about These 2 questions.


The line AB of length 6 m is a tangent to the inner one of the two concentric circles at point C and a chord to the outer circle. Find the radius of the outer circle if both the radii have integer values.

(B) 4 m
(C) 6 m
(A) 5 m
(D) 3 m
(E) 7 m

If the radius of a sphere is increased by 2 cm, its surface area increases by 352 cm2 . The radius of sphere before the change is

(A) 3 cm
(C) 6 cm
(D) 7 cm
(B) 4 cm
(E) 5 cm
1st one is answered check first page last but one post
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by kapur.arnav » Thu Oct 21, 2010 10:47 am
goyalsau wrote:If the radius of a sphere is increased by 2 cm, its surface area increases by 352 cm2 . The radius of sphere before the change is

(A) 3 cm
(C) 6 cm
(D) 7 cm
(B) 4 cm
(E) 5 cm

surface area = 4piR^2

Considering, if sphere is increased by 2 cm, its surface area increases by 352 cm2..

A + 352 = 4pi(R+2)^2

replace A with 4piR^2 and solve for R...

Ans - 6

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by fskilnik@GMATH » Thu Oct 21, 2010 10:58 am
shovan85 wrote:
goyalsau wrote:
The line AB of length 6 m is a tangent to the inner one of the two concentric circles at point C and a chord to the outer circle. Find the radius of the outer circle if both the radii have integer values.

(B) 4 m
(C) 6 m
(A) 5 m
(D) 3 m
(E) 7 m
See the diagram below. Let OC be r and OB be R.

Pythagoras Theo. r^2 + 3^2 = R^2

Now all should be integers (r and R) so we need to see the triplet that satisfy this.
Some example of triplets are 3-4-5, 6-8-10, 5-12-13

Now we have 3 and R>r so from the triplet R = 5cm

IMO A 5cm
But what about other potential values, apart from the ones that are "generated" by the triplets mentioned?

Let us put a "bullet-proof" different ending, shall we?

From r^2 + 3^2 = R^2 we have (difference of squares)

(R+r)(R-r) = 9 where R+r > R-r are two positive integers whose product is 9.

The fact that two integers x and y are such that x.y = c, where c is not null, makes us be able to say that x and y are DIVISORS of c .... that means that R+r and R-r are positive divisors of 9, the first one greater than the other. Now we are sure that we are dealing with (only) 9 and 1, respectively (think about the factorization of 9) therefore you get R = 5 easy.

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by Ian Stewart » Thu Oct 21, 2010 5:32 pm
goyalsau wrote:How many real n's are there such that n! is a perfect square?

(E) More than 3
(C) 2
(D) 3
(B) 1
(A) 0
fskilnik asked for my input on this. It's a deeply flawed question for several reasons; anyone studying for the GMAT can simply ignore it and stop reading this post now, since nothing below will be relevant to you. But since I wouldn't want to describe a practice question as 'flawed' without explaining why, I'll mention three different reasons why this is a terrible GMAT practice question:

* the question asks about *real* numbers 'n' for which n! is a perfect square. Well, in advanced math, you learn how to define n! even when n is a decimal number (the function you get is a translation of what is known as the 'gamma function'). That function is continuous and constantly increasing, so can equal absolutely any perfect square greater than 0. So a mathematician would say that the answer to this question is 'infinitely many'. If the OA to this question is '2', the OA is simply wrong. The math involved is, however, beyond even what you'd encounter in a standard undergraduate math curriculum, and is simply light years beyond what is required on the GMAT.

* here, there are certainly at least two small integers n for which n! is a square; n = 0 and n = 1. That said, I have never seen a real GMAT question which tests whether you know what 0! means. It's the kind of technicality the GMAT question designers seem to go to great lengths to avoid testing, and I expect there never will be a real GMAT question which requires you to know anything about 0!. Since this is one of the 'traps' built into this question, it's simply not realistic.

* further, if you assume n is an integer, then to answer this question properly, you need to prove that there is *no* large integer value of n for which n! is a square. That's impossible to do using only what a GMAT test taker would normally know, since it requires you to use some kind of information about the distribution of primes. The conventional way to prove this is to use something known as Bertrand's Postulate (which is not a postulate, but a proven theorem), as fsklinik did above. That postulate is extremely difficult to prove from scratch (there's absolutely no way anyone could prove it within two minutes and apply it to this question), and it will never, ever, be required to solve a real GMAT question. So while you might encounter this question if you take a Masters level course in Number Theory, it is millions and millions of miles too advanced for the GMAT.

Any prep material that presents this as a realistic GMAT practice problem should simply be thrown in the rubbish bin, since if the authors think the GMAT tests things like this, they simply don't understand what's on the test. Glancing at the other questions in the original post, they all suffer from the same issue. Where are they from?
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by goyalsau » Thu Oct 21, 2010 9:51 pm
Ian Stewart wrote:
Glancing at the other questions in the original post, they all suffer from the same issue. Where are they from?
Thanks Ian, Previously i joined a coaching institute in Delhi ( Wisdom Mart ), They have given me the access to their online Portal and there were some 16 Mock Exams in it, this question is one from the Mock CATs.
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by fskilnik@GMATH » Fri Oct 22, 2010 2:08 am
Thanks a lot for coming here and for your detailed answer, Ian.

I really missed the fact that they´ve asked about real numbers, of course my solution deals (and solves) just the integers case, and I agree that Bertrand´s Postulate (as it is usually know, although it is certainly a theorem) is far beyond the GMAT universe... that´s why I´ve asked you if you could think about another way of explaining this, with full rigour, inside the GMAT framework, even considering the "two minutes" constraint.

Just two aparts:

(1.) I tell my students that it´s not a "two minutes/question test", it´s a "two minutes/question test ON AVERAGE" and that means the examiners MAY (and they do) put questions that should be properly solved by a far above-average test taker in (say) 3.5 minutes... this "trade-off" of quick and not-that-quick questions, saving time and then using it, is also a beautiful handicap that the students must get used to...

(2.) I don´t believe students should avoid questions that are "a bit above" the common level of difficulty presented in the official guides or official mocks, simply because the test itself is ADAPTIVE, and we should keep in mind that students may (and should) target REALLY high marks, and that means having to solve problems that the average GMAT taker feels "difficult"... in that sense, I (personally) believe some of the questions presented at this post are really ok, but not the one that motivated Ian´s response, for sure. The (Geometry) one I helped to conclude, by the way, seems to me ABSOLUTELY "kosher" and also pretty important, and it may be solved REALLY quick, with ALL details considered.

(My e-course is very above-average and some of the questions I discuss there are far beyond the common level found in books and traditional preps. I do that because as Frank Sinatra usually song, "if you can make it there, you can make it everywhere".... so that if the student has maturity for deeper/stronger problems, he/she starts to be confident in the weaker environment....)

Well, that´s it. But I am aware all this is really a matter of opinions, sure.

Thanks a lot again, Ian.

Regards,
Fabio.
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