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OG11 and Verbal/Quant Review finished but no improvement

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OG11 and Verbal/Quant Review finished but no improvement

by erjamit » Fri Jun 13, 2008 11:49 pm
Hi All,

I am totally devastated. I have completed OG11 and the Verbal and Quant reviews. I referred Manhattan SC and Kaplan Math Workbook. The problem is my scores are really bad, in the range of 530-570 (Q: 32/35) and (V: 25/30). I have a fair understanding of and Verbal Quant conceptsc

My problems are many-fold:-

1. I don't understand some quant questions at all. If I do understand what is needed I don't get any idea how to solve it. On top of that silly mistakes kill me.

2. SC is bit ok for me. My accuracy is around 70-80%. However, I am struggling in CR and RC. I am able to eliminate 3 choices quite often, but I end-up choosing the wrong option from the remaining 2. My accuracy here is around 50%.

Since, I have finished OG, if I redo it I am already familiar with the question and I think it is not fair on my part.

Can someone pls suggest what to do and how to improve my scores. My test date is 20-Aug and I have an engg. background.
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by mayonnai5e » Sat Jun 14, 2008 3:53 pm
What types of quant questions are you not understanding? Word problems? Num. Properties?

When you are down to the last 2 choices, can you identify why the correct one is right after you've made the mistake of choosing the incorrect one?

Do you have a lessons learned log? An error log?
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550 =\ ...560 =\... 650 =) ...570 =( ...540 =*( ...680 =P ... 670 =T ...=T... 650 =T ...700 =) ..690 =) ...710 =D ...GMAT 720 DING!! ;D

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by lastday » Sat Jun 14, 2008 6:40 pm
Have you considered working with a tutor?
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by erjamit » Sat Jun 14, 2008 6:56 pm
I think my errors are well spread-out and don't fall in particular area of Quant or Verbal. I have kept an error log, but I think it not a well maintained one.
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by mbadrew » Sat Jun 14, 2008 9:39 pm
Have you tried taking a review course? I'm taking the gmaxonline review course and its really helping me understand the core concepts of quant and verbal.
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by erjamit » Sat Jun 14, 2008 9:48 pm
I have a strong mathematics background. The problem I quess with my quant is the inability to recognize what is required in the problem and to get it within 2 mins. I can solve maximum problems with some more time. I feel its time factor playing with my psychology. Since, usually on a GMAT-CAT, I end up answering all question in less than 60 mins. My time management seems to be horribly wrong.

Regarding Verbal, I have referred one and only Manhattan SC. SC seems to be ok, but my comprehension is an issue. I am going through some information on this forum on how to effectively comprehend a passage as well as CR.

I remember, someone has mentioned how to extract the maximum from OG. Which basically talks about the importance of analysis. Can anyone show that link, if he/she remembers. I am trying to search but in vain.

Thanks
Amit
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by erjamit » Wed Jun 18, 2008 12:02 am
I have started Kaplan Verbal Workbook and after that planning to do Kaplan 800. Each weekend I am planning to take 1 CAT. I have 2 months for the D-day. My problem is I find each question a new one and can't correlate to the earlier studied questions.

Can anyone pls help and guide me how to effectively use the next 2 months. I am in pretty bad shape and stressed out to the core.

Thanks
Amit
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Re: OG11 and Verbal/Quant Review finished but no improvement

by II » Wed Jun 18, 2008 2:00 am
erjamit wrote:Hi All,

I am totally devastated. I have completed OG11 and the Verbal and Quant reviews. I referred Manhattan SC and Kaplan Math Workbook. The problem is my scores are really bad, in the range of 530-570 (Q: 32/35) and (V: 25/30). I have a fair understanding of and Verbal Quant conceptsc

My problems are many-fold:-

1. I don't understand some quant questions at all. If I do understand what is needed I don't get any idea how to solve it. On top of that silly mistakes kill me.

2. SC is bit ok for me. My accuracy is around 70-80%. However, I am struggling in CR and RC. I am able to eliminate 3 choices quite often, but I end-up choosing the wrong option from the remaining 2. My accuracy here is around 50%.

Since, I have finished OG, if I redo it I am already familiar with the question and I think it is not fair on my part.

Can someone pls suggest what to do and how to improve my scores. My test date is 20-Aug and I have an engg. background.
Did you do the OG questions under timed conditions ? This is critical ... ALL questions need to be done under timed conditions, otherwise you will struggle under the test conditions. You need to be comfortable working under timed conditions.

Doing well on the GMAT has more to do with HOW QUICKLY you can RECOGNISE a question by PLACING IT IN CONTEXT OF OTHER QUESTIONS you've seen.

In my opinion, you have to prepare in the following areas:
1) Content - make sure you know the strategies/approaches to solve certain questions. Understand the content ... algebra, ratios, geometry etc
2) Timing - GMAT is a timed test ... this is critical. IF you dont manage timing effectively, then you will not do well on the test.
3) Stress/Nerves - If you are on top of the content and your timing is good, then you are in good shape. However, you need to be able to handle your nerves and stress of doing the actual exam. Some people will falter under stress/nerves.

By doing full length practice tests it will help tackle points 2 and 3.

Hope this helps
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in d same boat

by raunekk » Wed Jun 18, 2008 7:36 am
HI erjamit... i guess we both are sailing in the same boat..read replies to my posts ..it might be useful..!!!If u get ne useful strategies do letme know..
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Re: OG11 and Verbal/Quant Review finished but no improvement

by lunarpower » Wed Jun 18, 2008 2:13 pm
II wrote:Doing well on the GMAT has more to do with HOW QUICKLY you can RECOGNISE a question by PLACING IT IN CONTEXT OF OTHER QUESTIONS you've seen.
absolutely right.

one thing i've observed often with students who have completed lots and lots of practice material, but who haven't seen any real progress, is that they just do tons of problems 'rapid fire' style, without trying to notice the ways in which the problems are interrelated.

a very, very thorough review of a single problem can take ten minutes or even longer, depending on the nature of the problem. if it's a number properties problem, with lots of subtle signals as to the content being tested (i.e., if you have to recognize that the problem is about, say, primes / divisibility / pos-neg-zero, even though those actual words aren't in the problem statement itself), you might take even longer.
here's the kind of thing you want to do when you review a problem:
* make sure you look for the SIGNALS and CONNECTIONS BETWEEN PROBLEMS.
do not think of the o.g. as a random collection of hundreds of problems to solve individually. instead, think of it as a NETWORK of problems, all related to each other, from which your job is to draw the CONNECTIONS. see, here's the deal: the actual problems themselves are unimportant, because you know you're not going to see those actual problems again. it's the GENERAL IDEAS AND SIGNALS appearing in the problems that matter, because those are the things you're looking for when you see problems on actual tests.
after you solve problems, then, take some time to look back at similar-looking problems (or problems on which you used similar strategies, even though the problems themselves may not have been similar-looking), and see if you can EXTRACT GENERAL PATTERNS OF STRATEGY for those problems. this is the real point of practicing: you come out with techniques that you can use on FUTURE problems. (you should not take too much time teasing out the specifics of any one problem, because, remember, you're never going to see that specific problem again.)

if you're looking for all these things, then you may find that the o.g. and quant supplement alone present more than enough material for a long period of review.
Ron has been teaching various standardized tests for 20 years.

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Re: OG11 and Verbal/Quant Review finished but no improvement

by II » Sun Jun 29, 2008 2:37 am
lunarpower wrote:here's the kind of thing you want to do when you review a problem:
* make sure you look for the SIGNALS and CONNECTIONS BETWEEN PROBLEMS.
do not think of the o.g. as a random collection of hundreds of problems to solve individually. instead, think of it as a NETWORK of problems, all related to each other, from which your job is to draw the CONNECTIONS.
I was thinking it would be good to have a way of illustrating these connections, and then being able to go back and study them.

Can you think of a good way to illustrate them on paper?? Maybe it would be good to get them out in the open, and make them more explicit.

Thanks.
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Re: OG11 and Verbal/Quant Review finished but no improvement

by lunarpower » Sun Jun 29, 2008 8:37 am
II wrote:
lunarpower wrote:here's the kind of thing you want to do when you review a problem:
* make sure you look for the SIGNALS and CONNECTIONS BETWEEN PROBLEMS.
do not think of the o.g. as a random collection of hundreds of problems to solve individually. instead, think of it as a NETWORK of problems, all related to each other, from which your job is to draw the CONNECTIONS.
I was thinking it would be good to have a way of illustrating these connections, and then being able to go back and study them.

Can you think of a good way to illustrate them on paper?? Maybe it would be good to get them out in the open, and make them more explicit.

Thanks.
one way to do this: make flash cards of the problems, and then highlight anything that acts as a signal. then go through the flash cards and group them according to the common threads of these signals.

illustration: (i can't type too much specific detail from o.g. questions here)
look at data suff problem #39 in the green quant supplement, and highlight such things as "product" and "greater than 1" that are SIGNALS telling you the problem is talking about prime numbers.
then look at data suff problem #153, do the same highlighting, and notice that the problem contains many of the same SIGNALS - both are about integers greater than one, and "factor" and "product" are really the same idea (i.e., different numbers multiplying together to give some other number).

at first this is really time-consuming and not all that fun, but you'll appreciate the effort once you start recognizing bits and pieces of problems on a regular basis.
Ron has been teaching various standardized tests for 20 years.

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work with CR bible

by atabiss » Sun Jun 29, 2008 9:18 am
it would def help you out,, If you understand the concepts and dont generalize anything, for RC its just practice that can help US..
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by mymisc » Sun Sep 19, 2010 12:58 pm
Ron,

Your illustration on the pattern of math probllems makes very well sense!!! Would you please help to make a similar example for verbal?

Thanks!
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by lunarpower » Mon Sep 20, 2010 12:29 am
mymisc wrote:Ron,

Your illustration on the pattern of math probllems makes very well sense!!! Would you please help to make a similar example for verbal?

Thanks!
if there is any part of the verbal section on which it is important to make this distinction, that part would be the sentence correction section.


SENTENCE CORRECTION is probably the single area in which there is the BIGGEST DISCONNECT between doing the problems and studying / reviewing the problems.

namely:

* when you DO sentence correction problems, you should focus the vast majority of your attention on finding ERRORS in the problems. (in general, it's unrealistic for most students to be able to "pick out the correct one" -- this is just too hard, especially for non-native speakers.)

BUT
* when you REVIEW sentence correction problems, you should focus on the CORRECT answer, since everything in the correct answer must be correct.

therefore:
* you should review ALL sentence correction problems in depth -- EVEN THE ONES YOU GOT CORRECT.
* ideally, you should be able to understand EVERY grammatical construction in the correct answer, and EVERY difference between the correct answer and the incorrect answers.
you don't have to be able to name them -- in most cases, in fact, it's preferable NOT to bother with grammatical labels -- but you should be able to understand what the grammatical constructions are doing, and to be able to give your own examples.
e.g.

* if the correct answer contains any modifiers, anywhere, (even outside the underline) you should be able to specify EXACTLY what word(s) is/are being modified, and WHY this is appropriate in context.

* when the correct answer contains verbs, you should be able to specify the exact subject of every verb, and be able to justify the verb tense.

* you should be able to explain the precise meaning of the sentence.

* if there is parallelism, you should be able to point out (a) the signals; (b) the parallel contexts; AND (c) the exact parallel structures.

* if there are pronouns, you should be able to (a) point out the exact antecedent (referent) of the pronoun -- unless it's one of the exceptional cases when you don't need one -- AND (b) explain why that antecedent is appropriate in context.

etc.

if you follow this sort of thorough review, you will find that there is a lot more juice to be squeezed out of the OG sentence correction section than you had previously thought.
Ron has been teaching various standardized tests for 20 years.

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