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MGMAT: Cumberland Mine (number vs. amount)

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MGMAT: Cumberland Mine (number vs. amount)

by chet steadman » Sat Aug 30, 2008 1:18 pm
The administration has increased the number of fines for mining safety violations as part of their campaign to protect miners.


a) has increased the number of fines for mining safety violations as part of their

b) have increased the number of fines for mining safety violations as part of their

c) has increased the number of fines for mining safety violations as part of its

d) has increased the amount of fines for mining safety violations as part of its

e) have increased the amount of fines for mining safety violations as part of their



I was torn between c and d. Can't "fines" be both countable and uncountable, depending on the context?

Countable:
"I received three fines, all for different amounts: $150, $100, $50."

Uncountable:
"The city issued 3.5mm dollars in fines last year."
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by smilysubbugr8 » Sat Aug 30, 2008 1:36 pm
I hope C is the answer...

Here fines are countable and so number should be used.

Plz post the OA
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by chet steadman » Sat Aug 30, 2008 1:44 pm
C is correct. I went "right to wrong", thinking the number was static but each individual fine was increasing in value..

Would this be worded differently if my scenario were the case?
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by 2010gmat » Sun Nov 01, 2009 3:25 am
i am also stuck between c and d....

both number and amount can be used ... it depends on the context...

but usually amount of the fine is increased to discourage people from breaking the law...

e.g: govt increased the fine for overspeeding from 500 to 1000 ... in this case we cant use number of fine...

experts pls help....
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by gmatv09 » Sun Nov 01, 2009 8:36 am
IMO ...
in the sentence:
"The administration has increased the number of fines for mining safety violations as part of their campaign to protect miners"

The admin has proposed various types of fines ... fine1, fine2, fine3 etc...

In ...
govt increased the fine for overspeeding from 500 to 1000 ... in this case we cant use number of fine

Here the govt. increased the amount of fine (not no. of fines)

HTH
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by 2010gmat » Sun Nov 01, 2009 9:52 am
agreed!

now let us consider c and d

increased no. of fines --> introduced various fines..which is gramatically and logically correct

increased amount of fines --> increased the amount of existing fines--> again correct gramatically and logically...


IMO both c and d are correct and intent of author will decide the correct ans...but how to know the author's intent in such cases??
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by sumanr84 » Thu May 20, 2010 4:44 am
2010gmat wrote:agreed!

now let us consider c and d

increased no. of fines --> introduced various fines..which is gramatically and logically correct

increased amount of fines --> increased the amount of existing fines--> again correct gramatically and logically...


IMO both c and d are correct and intent of author will decide the correct ans...but how to know the author's intent in such cases??
Opening an old thread..
I agree. I got this Q wrong today on MGMAT CAT and was quite upset seeing the reasoning of countable/uncountable. It will depend on the context as people have pointed above.
Could someone put more light on this.
I am on a break !!
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by gtvisa2002 » Thu May 20, 2010 9:44 am
sumanr84 wrote:
2010gmat wrote:agreed!

now let us consider c and d

increased no. of fines --> introduced various fines..which is gramatically and logically correct

increased amount of fines --> increased the amount of existing fines--> again correct gramatically and logically...


IMO both c and d are correct and intent of author will decide the correct ans...but how to know the author's intent in such cases??
Opening an old thread..
I agree. I got this Q wrong today on MGMAT CAT and was quite upset seeing the reasoning of countable/uncountable. It will depend on the context as people have pointed above.
Could someone put more light on this.
Suman,

As many other said both C and D are correct.
In that situation, IMO its better to go with the meaning of theoriginal sentence.
Here the sentence says number so C is more likely to be correct in actual exam.

Thanks.
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by nikhilkatira » Wed Aug 04, 2010 6:38 am
gtvisa2002 wrote:
sumanr84 wrote:
2010gmat wrote:agreed!

now let us consider c and d

increased no. of fines --> introduced various fines..which is gramatically and logically correct

increased amount of fines --> increased the amount of existing fines--> again correct gramatically and logically...


IMO both c and d are correct and intent of author will decide the correct ans...but how to know the author's intent in such cases??
Opening an old thread..
I agree. I got this Q wrong today on MGMAT CAT and was quite upset seeing the reasoning of countable/uncountable. It will depend on the context as people have pointed above.
Could someone put more light on this.

Suman,

As many other said both C and D are correct.
In that situation, IMO its better to go with the meaning of theoriginal sentence.
Here the sentence says number so C is more likely to be correct in actual exam.

Thanks.
Explanation by Ron

i hear you on this, but you'd still have a singular/plural problem.

if you're talking about ONE fine amount, as you do here, then you would say "amount (sing.) of the fine (sing.)".

if you're talking about several different levels of fines, then you would say "amounts (sing.) of the fines (sing.)".
Best,
Nikhil H. Katira
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by pnk » Sun Aug 08, 2010 9:38 pm
posted twice
Last edited by pnk on Sun Aug 08, 2010 9:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by pnk » Sun Aug 08, 2010 9:42 pm
pnk wrote:
chet steadman wrote:The administration has increased the number of fines for mining safety violations as part of their campaign to protect miners.

a) has increased the number of fines for mining safety violations as part of their
b) have increased the number of fines for mining safety violations as part of their
c) has increased the number of fines for mining safety violations as part of its
d) has increased the amount of fines for mining safety violations as part of its
e) have increased the amount of fines for mining safety violations as part of their
I agree D is wrong, but I am still struggling with C - 'the number' is singular but then how it can take 'the number of fines'

Can anyone clarify pls
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by kvcpk » Sun Aug 08, 2010 10:03 pm
pnk wrote:I agree D is wrong, but I am still struggling with C - 'the number' is singular but then how it can take 'the number of fines'

Can anyone clarify pls
[/quote]

You are right that "The number" is singluar. But actually, it makes the Verb Singular.
Example:
The number of buses in Newyork has increased significantly.

"A Number" is used to make the verb plural.
A number of students have reported sick.

In both the cases, what comes after "of" is plural.
You cannot say "A number of student" or "the number of bus"

Hope this helps!!
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by pnk » Sun Aug 08, 2010 11:05 pm
Thanks. It helped.

Just to clarify things further
1) " amounts of fines", "amount of fine" - both correct
2) "the number of fines" - correct,
3) "the number of fine" - will it be correct or incorrect
4) "the numbers of fines - is incorrect
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by blaster » Mon Aug 09, 2010 3:26 am
logic of sentence is not clear. number of fine can't be increased logically , only amount can be increased. Because the number of fines is not controlled by administration (logically)
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by kvcpk » Mon Aug 09, 2010 3:41 am
pnk wrote:Thanks. It helped.

Just to clarify things further
1) " amounts of fines", "amount of fine" - both correct
2) "the number of fines" - correct,
3) "the number of fine" - will it be correct or incorrect
4) "the numbers of fines - is incorrect
Blaster is right. It depended on the intended meaning.

You can say "the number of the bus is 87A"
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