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Isn't that a contradiction?

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Isn't that a contradiction?

by 123nobody321 » Sun Aug 25, 2013 2:37 am
Hey forum,

I have come across a rule in the MGMAT which confuses me a bit. In the chapter about Pronouns, the MGMAT says that we should not use "this", "these", "that" or "those" in place of nouns, but should use "it", "they" or "them" instead.
Then they gave this example:
Wrong: Her products are unusual; many consider these unique.
Right: Her products are unusual; many consider them unique.

So far so good, but a subchapter before, MGMAT gave this example:
Right: Her company is outperforming those of her competitor.

Here, we used "those" and we referred to a noun ("company"), right?

Am I right? Is MGMAT with a rule wrong? Do I miss something? I am a little bit confused.


Any help is much appreciated! :)

Best regards,
nobody
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by sameerballani » Sun Aug 25, 2013 7:28 am
1) THAT OF and THOSE OF are used to create copies !!
If we wish to create a single copy use THAT OF, else for multiple copies use THOSE OF.

R: Her company is outperforming THAT OF her competitor
R Same as: Her company is outperforming COMPANY OF her competitor

Your eg -
Her company is outperforming those of her competitors.

This sentence is incorrect. The same is mentioned in the SC Guide as well.
This is wrong because the initial noun is singular ie HER COMPANY, whereas later we wish to have plural ie. COMPANIES of her competitor. In this case GMAT recommends to re-use of the noun rather than to use a PRONOUN.

Correct Sentence: Her company is outperforming THE COMPANIES OF her competitors.

2) THESE/THEM is about CASE. We need to check that the pronoun is being used as Subject or OBJECT.
R: Her products are unusual;
R: HER PRODUCTS are cheap. PRODUCT used as SUBJECT so: THESE PRODUCTS are cheap
R: Many People consider her product good. Product used as OBJECT so: Many people consider THEM good.

Hope this helps !!
123nobody321 wrote:Hey forum,

I have come across a rule in the MGMAT which confuses me a bit. In the chapter about Pronouns, the MGMAT says that we should not use "this", "these", "that" or "those" in place of nouns, but should use "it", "they" or "them" instead.
Then ey gave this example:
Wrong: Her products are unusual; many consider these unique.
Right: Her products are unusual; many consider them unique.

So far so good, but a subchapter before, MGMAT gave this example:
Right: Her company is outperforming those of her competitor.

Here, we used "those" and we referred to a noun ("company"), right?

Am I right? Is MGMAT with a rule wrong? Do I miss something? I am a little bit confused.


Any help is much appreciated! :)

Best regards,
nobody
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by 123nobody321 » Sun Aug 25, 2013 8:22 am
Hi,

thanks for your reply.
I think we are talking a little bit about different things. THAT OF and THOSE OF do indicate copies - yes, I am fine with that.

But I am wondering more about how MGMAT says that we should not use "this", "these", "that" or "those" in place of nouns when I think that the example: Her company is outperforming that of her competitor correct is?
Yes, "that of" does indicate a copy, but I care more about the fact that "that of" does refer to the noun "company".

"That" is kind of a pronoun which takes the place of a noun (here: "company"). But this violates the rule that we should not use "this, these, that or those" in place of nouns.

Could you please shed some light on this?

Best,
nobody
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by sameerballani » Sun Aug 25, 2013 11:24 am
Ok. I think now I get what you mean. I would say read that rule as -
1) do not use ONLY this or these in place of nouns. Use them as adjective in front of noun.
Eg W: This is great. R: This car is great.

2) do not use ONLY that or those in place of nouns, unless you modify that or those to make them New Copies. Instead, use it, they, or them.

Avoidable: That you supported me was encouraging.
R: It was encouraging that you supported me.

You can use that of and those of as NOUN.

R: Her company is outperforming ABC inc.
ABC inc is a noun
R: Her company is outperforming THAT OF her competitor
THAT OF = COMPANY OF = plays the role of noun.

Hope this helps..

Experts please pitch in for better clarity..
123nobody321 wrote:Hi,

thanks for your reply.
I think we are talking a little bit about different things. THAT OF and THOSE OF do indicate copies - yes, I am fine with that.

But I am wondering more about how MGMAT says that we should not use "this", "these", "that" or "those" in place of nouns when I think that the example: Her company is outperforming that of her competitor correct is?
Yes, "that of" does indicate a copy, but I care more about the fact that "that of" does refer to the noun "company".

"That" is kind of a pronoun which takes the place of a noun (here: "company"). But this violates the rule that we should not use "this, these, that or those" in place of nouns.

Could you please shed some light on this?

Best,
nobody
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by Mission2012 » Sun Aug 25, 2013 12:22 pm
Hey,

Doesn't it say that "that" and "those" can be used when they are modified.

In the example that you just stated "those" is modified those of her competitors.

Check SC Guide again.
123nobody321 wrote:Hey forum,

I have come across a rule in the MGMAT which confuses me a bit. In the chapter about Pronouns, the MGMAT says that we should not use "this", "these", "that" or "those" in place of nouns, but should use "it", "they" or "them" instead.
Then they gave this example:
Wrong: Her products are unusual; many consider these unique.
Right: Her products are unusual; many consider them unique.

So far so good, but a subchapter before, MGMAT gave this example:
Right: Her company is outperforming those of her competitor.

Here, we used "those" and we referred to a noun ("company"), right?

Am I right? Is MGMAT with a rule wrong? Do I miss something? I am a little bit confused.


Any help is much appreciated! :)

Best regards,
nobody
If you find my post useful -> please click on "Thanks"
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