1000 SC Q31

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vivek.kapoor83: Legendary Member; Posts: 833; Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 1:56 am; Thanked: 13 times

by vivek.kapoor83 » Tue Aug 26, 2008 10:52 pm

A star will compress itself into a white dwarf, a neutron star, or a black hole after it passes through a red giant stage, depending on mass.

(A) A star will compress itself into a white dwarf, a neutron star, or a black hole after it passes through a red giant stage, depending on mass.
(B) After passing through a red giant stage, depending on its mass, a star will compress itself into a white dwarf, a neutron star, or a black hole.
(C) After passing through a red giant stage, a star’s mass will determine if it compresses itself into a white dwarf, a neutron star, or a black hole.
(D) Mass determines whether a star, after passing through the red giant stage, will compress itself into a white dwarf, a neutron star, or a black hole.
(E) The mass of a star, after passing through the red giant stage, will determine whether it compresses itself into a white dwarf, a neutron star, or a black hole

IMO it should be A. but solution of 1000 SC Says D. I doubt D is wrong. What do u say folks

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codesnooker: Legendary Member; Posts: 543; Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 1:01 am; Thanked: 43 times; GMAT Score:580

Re: 1000 SC Q31

by codesnooker » Wed Aug 27, 2008 12:47 am

vivek.kapoor83 wrote:A star will compress itself into a white dwarf, a neutron star, or a black hole after it passes through a red giant stage, depending on mass.

(A) A star will compress itself into a white dwarf, a neutron star, or a black hole after it passes through a red giant stage, depending on mass.

(D) Mass determines whether a star, after passing through the red giant stage, will compress itself into a white dwarf, a neutron star, or a black hole.

IMO it should be A. but solution of 1000 SC Says D. I doubt D is wrong. What do u say folks

Why do you think, (D) is wrong???

(A) is wrong because there is Pronoun Reference Error in statement (A). The pronoun IT don't have clear Antecedent. i.e it could refer to Star, white dwarf, neutron star or even black hole.

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nileshpatil42: Junior | Next Rank: 30 Posts; Posts: 13; Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2010 6:37 am

by nileshpatil42 » Sun Aug 15, 2010 6:38 am

Whats wrong in option B,
Can anybody tell me that ???

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paes: Legendary Member; Posts: 995; Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:56 pmFollowed by: 1 member; Thanked: 31 times

by paes » Sun Aug 15, 2010 10:48 pm

IMO A

but OA is D.
D : is using following pattern
whether X, Y or Z .

Can somebody explain that the above pattern is correct ?

I have a understanding that whether is used only for 2 options
i.e.
whether X or Y

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[email protected]: Junior | Next Rank: 30 Posts; Posts: 24; Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 4:55 pm

by [email protected] » Sun Aug 15, 2010 11:43 pm

vivek.kapoor83 wrote:A star will compress itself into a white dwarf, a neutron star, or a black hole after it passes through a red giant stage, depending on mass.

(A) A star will compress itself into a white dwarf, a neutron star, or a black hole after it passes through a red giant stage, depending on mass.
(B) After passing through a red giant stage, depending on its mass, a star will compress itself into a white dwarf, a neutron star, or a black hole.
(C) After passing through a red giant stage, a starï¿½s mass will determine if it compresses itself into a white dwarf, a neutron star, or a black hole.
(D) Mass determines whether a star, after passing through the red giant stage, will compress itself into a white dwarf, a neutron star, or a black hole.
(E) The mass of a star, after passing through the red giant stage, will determine whether it compresses itself into a white dwarf, a neutron star, or a black hole

IMO it should be A. but solution of 1000 SC Says D. I doubt D is wrong. What do u say folks

IMO-D

A- It is ambiguous here
B- MMS - structure (Modifer-Modifer -Subject) both modifers are modifying subjects not like by GMAT if one modifer is modifying other then it is OK,but in this case both modifers are modifying the subject star.
C- Modifier issue - Star mass is not passing ,a Star is passing.
D- correct.
E. Modifier issue - Star mass is not passing ,a Star is passing

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FightWithGMAT: Master | Next Rank: 500 Posts; Posts: 364; Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 5:13 amFollowed by: 3 members; Thanked: 31 times

by FightWithGMAT » Mon Aug 16, 2010 7:30 am

vivek.kapoor83 wrote:A star will compress itself into a white dwarf, a neutron star, or a black hole after it passes through a red giant stage, depending on mass.

(A) A star will compress itself into a white dwarf, a neutron star, or a black hole after it passes through a red giant stage, depending on mass.
(B) After passing through a red giant stage, depending on its mass, a star will compress itself into a white dwarf, a neutron star, or a black hole.
(C) After passing through a red giant stage, a starï¿½s mass will determine if it compresses itself into a white dwarf, a neutron star, or a black hole.
(D) Mass determines whether a star, after passing through the red giant stage, will compress itself into a white dwarf, a neutron star, or a black hole.
(E) The mass of a star, after passing through the red giant stage, will determine whether it compresses itself into a white dwarf, a neutron star, or a black hole

IMO it should be A. but solution of 1000 SC Says D. I doubt D is wrong. What do u say folks

IT in A is not ambiguous...it clearly points to A star.
Position of noun modifier "depending on mass" is ambiguous...or I would say is wrong.

See the correct version of the sentence.

A star, depending on mass, will compress itself into a white dwarf, a neutron star, or a black hole after it passes through a red giant stage.

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this_time_i_will: Master | Next Rank: 500 Posts; Posts: 268; Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2010 2:32 am; Thanked: 17 times

by this_time_i_will » Mon Aug 16, 2010 8:26 am

vivek.kapoor83 wrote:A star will compress itself into a white dwarf, a neutron star, or a black hole after it passes through a red giant stage, depending on mass.

(A) A star will compress itself into a white dwarf, a neutron star, or a black hole after it passes through a red giant stage, depending on mass. : the phrase depending on mass modifies red giant stage. This phrase should modify the star.
(B) After passing through a red giant stage, depending on its mass, a star will compress itself into a white dwarf, a neutron star, or a black hole.: two introductory back-to-back modifier, modifying star
(C) After passing through a red giant stage, a starï¿½s mass will determine if it compresses itself into a white dwarf, a neutron star, or a black hole.: After passing through a red giant stage modifies mass and not star.
(D) Mass determines whether a star, after passing through the red giant stage, will compress itself into a white dwarf, a neutron star, or a black hole.
(E) The mass of a star, after passing through the red giant stage, will determine whether it compresses itself into a white dwarf, a neutron star, or a black hole: Its not the mass, but the star that passes through red giant phase.

IMO it should be A. but solution of 1000 SC Says D. I doubt D is wrong. What do u say folks

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tomada: Master | Next Rank: 500 Posts; Posts: 406; Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2010 11:36 amFollowed by: 4 members; Location: Syracuse, NY; Thanked: 23 times; GMAT Score:740

by tomada » Mon Aug 16, 2010 12:32 pm

One more vote for D.

I'm really old, but I'll never be too old to become more educated.

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dinesh19aug: Senior | Next Rank: 100 Posts; Posts: 78; Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2008 9:05 am; Thanked: 7 times

by dinesh19aug » Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:03 pm

nileshpatil42 wrote:Whats wrong in option B,
Can anybody tell me that ???

B is wrong, because it is modifying the wrong object.
(B) After passing through a red giant stage, depending on its mass, a star will compress itself into a white dwarf, a neutron star, or a black hole.

What is passing through a red giant satge???? ....... Depending on it mass ??? No... It is the star.... Hence B is incorrect.

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dinesh19aug: Senior | Next Rank: 100 Posts; Posts: 78; Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2008 9:05 am; Thanked: 7 times

by dinesh19aug » Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:08 pm

vivek.kapoor83 wrote:A star will compress itself into a white dwarf, a neutron star, or a black hole after it passes through a red giant stage, depending on mass.

(A) A star will compress itself into a white dwarf, a neutron star, or a black hole after it passes through a red giant stage, depending on mass.
(B) After passing through a red giant stage, depending on its mass, a star will compress itself into a white dwarf, a neutron star, or a black hole.
(C) After passing through a red giant stage, a starï¿½s mass will determine if it compresses itself into a white dwarf, a neutron star, or a black hole.
(D) Mass determines whether a star, after passing through the red giant stage, will compress itself into a white dwarf, a neutron star, or a black hole.
(E) The mass of a star, after passing through the red giant stage, will determine whether it compresses itself into a white dwarf, a neutron star, or a black hole

IMO it should be A. but solution of 1000 SC Says D. I doubt D is wrong. What do u say folks

Explanation:
A is incorrect - Depending on mass should modify star. Here it is modifying red giant stage.
B is Incorrect - "After passing through a red giant stage, depending on its mass", After passing is modifying mass .... it should modify star.
C is incorrect because "After passing through a red giant stage, a starï¿½s mass", Red Giant stage should modify STAR and not STAR'S MASS.

D is correct
E is incorrect because meaning is chnaged. Mass of a star is the subject .... and it means that mass will compress itself into X, Y Or Z star. The sentence should mean that "STAR" should compress itself into X Y or Z star.

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paes: Legendary Member; Posts: 995; Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:56 pmFollowed by: 1 member; Thanked: 31 times

by paes » Tue Aug 17, 2010 6:16 pm

I still not convinced why A is wrong.

People are mentioning 2 reasons

(1) 'it' is ambiguous : But I think that 'it' is not ambiguous. 'it' is referring clearly to star.
Even if 'it' is ambiguous, ambiguity is not a strict rule to eliminate a answer choice.

(2) "depending on mass" is modifying to 'giant stage' : But what I think that a comma+ing modifier is a adverbial modifier and so it can modify to the whole clause (or its subject) also.
Hence in this case, it is modifying to 'star'

While on the other hand, D looks like changing the original meaning.
Please share your thoughts.

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Stuart@KaplanGMAT: GMAT Instructor; Posts: 3225; Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 2:40 pmFollowed by: 614 members; Location: Toronto; Thanked: 1710 times; GMAT Score:800

by Stuart@KaplanGMAT » Thu Aug 19, 2010 10:59 am

paes wrote:I still not convinced why A is wrong.

People are mentioning 2 reasons

(1) 'it' is ambiguous : But I think that 'it' is not ambiguous. 'it' is referring clearly to star.
Even if 'it' is ambiguous, ambiguity is not a strict rule to eliminate a answer choice.

(2) "depending on mass" is modifying to 'giant stage' : But what I think that a comma+ing modifier is a adverbial modifier and so it can modify to the whole clause (or its subject) also.
Hence in this case, it is modifying to 'star'

While on the other hand, D looks like changing the original meaning.
Please share your thoughts.

D is definitely the correct answer.

The original sentence has one major problem. Let's look at it:

(A) A star will compress itself into a white dwarf, a neutron star, or a black hole after it passes through a red giant stage, depending on mass.

The pronoun "it" isn't the big issue. Since the author already used "itself", which clearly refers to "a star", "it" also logically refers back to "a star". If "it" were supposed to refer to another noun, then there would be an ambiguity issue.

The big problem is the phrase at the end, "depending on mass", which doesn't clearly refer to the star's compression.

Remember this key rule for modification: a modifying phrase must be placed as close as possible to whatever the phrase is modifying.

When the entire sentence is underlined and the original sounds awkward, rephrasing it before looking at the remaining choices can be very useful. Here was my rephrase:

Depending on its mass, a star will compress itself into a white dwarf, a neutron star, or a black hole after passing through a red giant stage.

(I also didn't like "it passes" very much, so I changed it to "passing".)

After predicting, I went to the choices. Only (D) puts the modifiers where I wanted them, so I confidently chose (D).

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mundasingh123: Legendary Member; Posts: 2330; Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 5:14 amFollowed by: 26 members; Thanked: 56 times

by mundasingh123 » Thu Aug 19, 2010 11:08 am

Stuart Kovinsky wrote:
D is definitely the correct answer.

The original sentence has one major problem. Let's look at it:

(A) A star will compress itself into a white dwarf, a neutron star, or a black hole after it passes through a red giant stage, depending on mass.
The pronoun "it" isn't the big issue. Since the author already used "itself", which clearly refers to "a star", "it" also logically refers back to "a star". If "it" were supposed to refer to another noun, then there would be an ambiguity issue.

The big problem is the phrase at the end, "depending on mass", which doesn't clearly refer to the star's compression.

Depending on its mass, a star will compress itself into a white dwarf, a neutron star, or a black hole after passing through a red giant stage.
(I also didn't like "it passes" very much, so I changed it to "passing".)

After predicting, I went to the choices. Only (D) puts the modifiers where I wanted them, so I confidently chose (D).

In D)Is there not any ambiguity because of its.How are we certain that "its" refers to star

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mundasingh123: Legendary Member; Posts: 2330; Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 5:14 amFollowed by: 26 members; Thanked: 56 times

by mundasingh123 » Thu Aug 19, 2010 11:28 am

Stuart Kovinsky wrote:
paes wrote:I still not convinced why A is wrong.

People are mentioning 2 reasons

(1) 'it' is ambiguous : But I think that 'it' is not ambiguous. 'it' is referring clearly to star.
Even if 'it' is ambiguous, ambiguity is not a strict rule to eliminate a answer choice.

(2) "depending on mass" is modifying to 'giant stage' : But what I think that a comma+ing modifier is a adverbial modifier and so it can modify to the whole clause (or its subject) also.
Hence in this case, it is modifying to 'star'

While on the other hand, D looks like changing the original meaning.
Please share your thoughts.
D is definitely the correct answer.

The original sentence has one major problem. Let's look at it:

(A) A star will compress itself into a white dwarf, a neutron star, or a black hole after it passes through a red giant stage, depending on mass.
The pronoun "it" isn't the big issue. Since the author already used "itself", which clearly refers to "a star", "it" also logically refers back to "a star". If "it" were supposed to refer to another noun, then there would be an ambiguity issue.

The big problem is the phrase at the end, "depending on mass", which doesn't clearly refer to the star's compression.

Remember this key rule for modification: a modifying phrase must be placed as close as possible to whatever the phrase is modifying.

When the entire sentence is underlined and the original sounds awkward, rephrasing it before looking at the remaining choices can be very useful. Here was my rephrase:

Depending on its mass, a star will compress itself into a white dwarf, a neutron star, or a black hole after passing through a red giant stage.
(I also didn't like "it passes" very much, so I changed it to "passing".)

After predicting, I went to the choices. Only (D) puts the modifiers where I wanted them, so I confidently chose (D).

I think you meant B and not D

Last edited by mundasingh123 on Fri Aug 20, 2010 1:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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paes: Legendary Member; Posts: 995; Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:56 pmFollowed by: 1 member; Thanked: 31 times

by paes » Thu Aug 19, 2010 5:09 pm

Thanks Stuart.

Now after your explanation, D is definitely looking much better than A.

But here I am giving some examples of adverbial modifer, where modifying is not close to the noun,
Can you please tell me some basic diffference between these exampless and the above problem

1. To the historian Tacitus, the nephew of Pliny the Elder wrote two letters, being the only eyewitness accounts of the great eruption of Vesuvius."
2. Five fledgling sea eagles left their nests in western Scotland this summer, bringing to 34 the number of wild
ïƒ Bringing is modifying to 'Five fledgling sea eagles left their nests'
3. Animal-hide shields with wooden frames were essential items of military equipment, protecting warriors against enemy arrows and spears.
4. James ran down the sidewalk, flailing his arms.
5. I wrote two more papers, bringing my total for the year to twenty

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