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Shocker !!!

by champwix » Mon Apr 15, 2013 3:10 pm
I appeared for GMAT today for the third time, and I was completely bombed again. I am still in state of shock and disbelief. My today's GMAT score has certainly bombed, as I scored a paltry V19 - far below my previous attempt and practice exams. I am clueless what happened to me today.
Quant - 47 (73%ile), Verbal - 19 (17%ile), Overall - 540 (44%ile)

Previous GMAT Scores -
13 Dec'2010 - 510 (Q42 / V19) >> Overall - 510 / 37%, AWA - 4.5 (37%ile)
10 Dec'2012 - 600 (Q47 / V27) >> Overall - 600 / 62%, AWA - 6/6 (90%ile)

Here is my previous post when I started studying for Retake -
https://www.beatthegmat.com/gmat-retake-t193909.html

In the last 1-1/2 month, since I recovered my weak areas of CR and RC, I have done very well and far better than any of my previous attempts.
Below are my prac CATs since last month -
March 17 >> GMAT Prep1 >> Q49 V31 Overall = 660
March 30 >> GMAT Prep2 >> Q49 V30 Overall = 650
April 6 >> MGMAT CAT5 >> Q45 V34 Overall = 650
April 7 >> MGMAT CAT6 >> Q42 V33 Overall = 620
(Quant score suffered as I had to take a forced bio-break in middle. So, I was confident a 650 on this too)
April 12 >> GMAT Prep1 Retake >> Q49 V40 Overall = 720

A Prac CAT score of 720 two-days before real exam certainly boosted my confidence. Considering an inflation in the 720(3-4 points each section) and considering tough Quant on MGMAT, I thought I will score a minimum 680. Also, I am well aware of test skills. So, I was relaxed Saturday/Sunday and did not study at all to stay afresh on the D-Day. I reached test center 45mins early and settled well.
Even today, my AWA, IR and Quant section went very well. Even though I exceeded the 8min break before Quant, I did not panic as I was confident about the section (as we see score of Q47). On VerbaI, I thought I was getting tough questions and felt good about it.
As in my practice tests, I completed both sections before 1min calmly and confidently today.

But, I am baffled with the Verbal score and still clueless what might have happened? Can someone please throw some light?

The schools that I have already applied for are waiting on my Retake score. With a 3.71 GPA and 6years experience, I am in perfect shape for the real deal in MBA world; however, GMAT is being detrimental to my path. Even if I sit today for exam, I can reach 700, but with such uncertainty, I am nowhere. Though I am disheartened, I will never give up. Get set ready for next D-day.......
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by David@VeritasPrep » Mon Apr 15, 2013 4:28 pm
How did the verbal feel on this test?

Were you tired? Did you finish the section?

Did you have to guess much?

Something must have happened...
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by champwix » Tue Apr 16, 2013 4:42 am
Hi David,
As I said, I felt I was getting tougher questions and going through well. I did complete both sections well before 1 min (within 74 mins).
On tiredness - I have practiced and simulated a lot about test day. Usually, I take 2 Granola Bars and 1 Red Bull to avoid the tiredness factor, and it has certainly helped me after so much practice.
On Guessing - I did guess couple of them on RC, but on rest of the questions (SC/CR), I was doing good.
I am still thinking what has happened.
I thought as all Quant concepts & strategies have imbibed in me, similarly Verbal should be. But, it did not turn out on the real day. Is there a saturation level on particular content? Did I get saturated.

I plan to re-schedule after 31 days period. What should be my approach? Shall I just practice giving prac CATs, as I feel conceptually I have covered everything. I still feel confident even if I sit today.

Thanks!!
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by lunarpower » Sat Apr 20, 2013 3:53 am
i received a private message about this thread.
champwix wrote:(Quant score suffered as I had to take a forced bio-break in middle. So, I was confident a 650 on this too)
i'm curious about the "forced bio-break".
i mean, i can guess what that probably means, but ... yeah. Lol.
Considering an inflation in the 720(3-4 points each section)
where are you getting this number?
and considering tough Quant on MGMAT
there's no evidence that our quant sections are "tougher" than the official problems.
what is true-although we are taking steps, admittedly slowly, to fix it-is that our quant problems are, on average, longer than the official problems. i.e., they have more steps, on average, than do comparable official problems.
but there's no basis for the idea that they are somehow "harder".
Also, I am well aware of test skills.
what do you mean here?
On VerbaI, I thought I was getting tough questions and felt good about it.
problem number one, here.
DO NOT, EVER, think about "difficulty levels".

* there's no possible benefit at all.
* you won't be able to guess them with any accuracy whatsoever; you'll basically be making random conjectures.
* most importantly, thinking about "difficulty" will distract you from the actual task at hand.

analogy:
imagine that someone shoots a gun at you for 5 minutes, and you have to dodge the shots to stay alive.
while that's happening, will you be thinking AT ALL about the "difficulty" of dodging the most recent couple of bullets?
... of course you won't; you'll be too busy concentrating on trying to stay alive.

same for the gmat. if you are thinking about this "difficulty" bogeyman at all, you'll simply have less brainpower with which to approach the actual problems. period.
end of story.
With a 3.71 GPA and 6years experience, I am in perfect shape for the real deal in MBA world
this is not a career forum, but, i must tell you this: if you think that a GPA of "x" and "y" years of work experience is enough to make you a good MBA candidate, then ... you're not a very good MBA candidate.

those things are part of the foundation, sure, but they aren't differentiators. if you are looking to get into the first 2 tiers of business schools, you need to be special.

this will be the extent of what i have to say about that topic. but, if you regard MBA admissions (at US schools) as a "numbers game", then it's unlikely that you'll win the game.

good luck.
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by bpolley00 » Sat Apr 20, 2013 6:54 am
Ron,

First of all, great response. Secondly, can you elaborate on the following: "those things are part of the foundation, sure, but they aren't differentiators. if you are looking to get into the first 2 tiers of business schools, you need to be special." More specifically, can you give me your general idea of what special would mean here? Maybe, just some general things that come to your mind when you are thinking of what special would include? Thanks!

-Bp
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by champwix » Mon Apr 22, 2013 2:54 pm
Hi Ron,
Thank you for response!!
champwix wrote:
(Quant score suffered as I had to take a forced bio-break in middle. So, I was confident a 650 on this too)
i'm curious about the "forced bio-break".
i mean, i can guess what that probably means, but ... yeah. Lol.
Yeah, Lol!! It was silly, but I gave exam at an odd hour of the day (early 5AM); Naturally expected. :)

Quote:
Considering an inflation in the 720(3-4 points each section)
where are you getting this number?
As I said - April 12 >> GMAT Prep1 Retake >> Q49 V40 Overall = 720

I agree with you that the MGMAT Quant ques are lengthy - that's what I wanted to write.
By test (taking) skills, I meant the format of the exam, the required endurance, the importance of breaks, the tricks for guessing, etc etc.
On difficulty level of questions - You are correct!! Moreover, towards the end of exam on the Verbal section, thinking of difficulty is really a bad idea. Just a distraction. I will make a note and prepare accordingly.
Quote:
With a 3.71 GPA and 6years experience, I am in perfect shape for the real deal in MBA world
this is not a career forum, but, i must tell you this: if you think that a GPA of "x" and "y" years of work experience is enough to make you a good MBA candidate, then ... you're not a very good MBA candidate.

those things are part of the foundation, sure, but they aren't differentiators. if you are looking to get into the first 2 tiers of business schools, you need to be special.

this will be the extent of what i have to say about that topic. but, if you regard MBA admissions (at US schools) as a "numbers game", then it's unlikely that you'll win the game.
I certainly not meant MBA admissions as a numbers game; there are several assumptions (about my roles, responsibilities, core values, work profile, social services, managerial & leadership abilities etc) in the statement. :)
Thank you so much again for emphasizing on that part. Indeed, US MBA schools have variable class size that speaks about the admissions procedure. Schools do not stick to one particular number of students in the class, and admit students with caliber regardless of numbers.

Besides above points - What do you have say about saturation levels during exam or during study?
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by lunarpower » Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:47 am
bpolley00 wrote:Ron,

First of all, great response. Secondly, can you elaborate on the following: "those things are part of the foundation, sure, but they aren't differentiators. if you are looking to get into the first 2 tiers of business schools, you need to be special." More specifically, can you give me your general idea of what special would mean here? Maybe, just some general things that come to your mind when you are thinking of what special would include? Thanks!

-Bp
i'm going to be annoying and turn this question back around on you.

let's say you were interviewing a room full of people (whose résumés, etc. were available to you). your job was not necessarily to pick out "the brightest", but, rather, to pick out "the most likely to be innovators/successful entrepreneurs". what qualities would you look for?
whatever you answer to that question, that's the kind of differentiators i'm talking about. give it some thought; this is not a question on which spoon-feeding would be appropriate.

alternatively, let's say you're back in high school again, doing "superlatives" for the yearbook. What would make you pick someone as "Most Likely to Start a Multi-Billion-Dollar Co."?
yeah.
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by lunarpower » Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:56 am
champwix wrote:Yeah, Lol!! It was silly, but I gave exam at an odd hour of the day (early 5AM); Naturally expected. :)
they offered the exam at 5 o'clock in the morning? where was this?
i've never heard of a gmat appointment before 8 a.m. or after 4:30 p.m.
Quote:
Considering an inflation in the 720(3-4 points each section)
where are you getting this number?
As I said - April 12 >> GMAT Prep1 Retake >> Q49 V40 Overall = 720
what i meant was, where did you get "3-4 points each section" from? how was that figure calculated?

By test (taking) skills, I meant the format of the exam, the required endurance, the importance of breaks, the tricks for guessing, etc etc.
On difficulty level of questions - You are correct!! Moreover, towards the end of exam on the Verbal section, thinking of difficulty is really a bad idea. Just a distraction. I will make a note and prepare accordingly.
thinking about difficulty is ALWAYS a distraction, and NEVER a good thing, in any way whatsoever.

the only time when it would be appropriate for you to think about "difficulty levels" is if, later in life, you start writing test items for the GMAT.

Besides above points - What do you have say about saturation levels during exam or during study?
well, i'm not quite sure what you mean by "saturation levels", but, if you are asking whether there's such a thing as too much studying, the answer is YES.
remember, this is a thinker's test, not a "hard work" test.
* you should not study for more than 4-5 days per week.
* you should not study for more than 4 hours in a day-and, if you study that long, you should take a fairly long break in the middle. (that's pretty much the point at which the adult human capacity for learning-as opposed to "execution", which can be carried on for much longer-begins to peter out.)
* you shouldn't study for more than, say, 15 hours in a week max.

also, remember that there is zero information to learn in CR and RC; those two areas are entirely matters of strategic thinking. therefore, you shouldn't have to spend much time preparing for them-i'd say that after 10 to 15 lifetime hours in each area, you've pretty much done what you can do as far as preparing for them. from that point onward, further studying will generally not do much besides reinforce existing habits and mentalities.

again, i'm not sure whether i am addressing your actual question, because i'm not familiar with the jargon here. i am more like an eleven-year-old in terms of understanding things, so, if you phrase the question in a way that an eleven-year-old could understand, i could probably be more helpful. (:
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by bpolley00 » Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:52 am
Ron,

Absolutely, was just looking for your general perspective. In regards to doing superlatives, I was voted most likely to be on the Real World in a High School with 2,500+ kids. Does that count as an indicator of incredible business acumen? :)

Haha, but in all seriousness, the qualities thing makes sense to me and I hope that business schools aren't only looking for innovators/ successful entrepreneurs. I would personally rather buy entire businesses at discounted prices/ when they go on sale, but I guess that is just my style. I mean it isn't as if you couldn't go through every single publicly traded securities and distinguish which financial investments are in your own best interest to hold. Sort of like sentence correction with the GMAT, just start crossing off the bad answers.

Anyways, thanks for the responses. I am giving the GMAT one more go next month, I am going to bet I break the 700 mark, but we shall see.

-BP
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by champwix » Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:53 pm
Ron Sir,
The early morning exam was a Prac CAT (MGMAT) that I gave at home; not an official GMAT.

On the 720 score (3-4 points each section) - Ofcourse, I will not be able to calculate the actual inflation figure. I considered it based on my performance on other MGMAT CATs.

well, i'm not quite sure what you mean by "saturation levels", but, if you are asking whether there's such a thing as too much studying, the answer is YES.
remember, this is a thinker's test, not a "hard work" test.
* you should not study for more than 4-5 days per week.
* you should not study for more than 4 hours in a day-and, if you study that long, you should take a fairly long break in the middle. (that's pretty much the point at which the adult human capacity for learning-as opposed to "execution", which can be carried on for much longer-begins to peter out.)
* you shouldn't study for more than, say, 15 hours in a week max.

also, remember that there is zero information to learn in CR and RC; those two areas are entirely matters of strategic thinking. therefore, you shouldn't have to spend much time preparing for them-i'd say that after 10 to 15 lifetime hours in each area, you've pretty much done what you can do as far as preparing for them. from that point onward, further studying will generally not do much besides reinforce existing habits and mentalities.
Yes, I was speaking about the study time. My usual studying hours were 4AM in morning (I usually prefer studying in morning, being fresh, before getting exhausted due to work load later in the day); 2-3 hours daily study, 1 prac CAT each weekend and 1 day break (Monday) - thats how I plan my study schedule. I prepared for CR/RC strategies almost 2 weeks completely. I spent a lot of time on CR/RC last time as those were my weak areas. Eventually, I had thought that I overcame the CR/RC challenge looking at the prac CAT scores. Also, I did not touch any study material 2 days before the exam.
As I approached the D-Day, may be, I reached the saturation level. I agree the strategies did not come fluently on the exam day. I can conclude it was a bad day to get a 540 on real.

Anyways, now I have scheduled exam for 20th May. I took a 5 days break (much needed) from study and started preparing again. I plan to study only 2 hours a day (on weekdays) with 20 ques from each section, and then a Prac CAT on weekend (ofcourse reviewing it); already feeling confident working out some problems yday.
I am afraid that I may fall short of questions as I have already exhausted with OG, Verbal & Quant review, GMAT Prep Ques Pack 1.

Thank you so much Ron !! :)
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by lunarpower » Wed Apr 24, 2013 1:55 am
bpolley00 wrote:Ron,

Absolutely, was just looking for your general perspective. In regards to doing superlatives, I was voted most likely to be on the Real World in a High School with 2,500+ kids. Does that count as an indicator of incredible business acumen? :)
well, not to rain on your parade or anything, but, for that particular show, the MTV producers' directive is to actively pick out people who are ... well, insane. (like, literally; in the TRW casting process, a documented history of mental illness is actually considered a plus.) after all, a massive hysterical freak-out in front of the camera makes for much better entertainment than does, say, a calm, measured response to provocation.

soooooo... if your classmates actually knew how MTV casts that show, well, now you know what they were actually saying about you. hehe.
if they didn't, well then, who knows what they were implying.

in any case, the final word of advice that i have here is... just make sure you're really doing what you want to do, before you do it. that's all.
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by bpolley00 » Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:32 am
Champwix,

Sorry for taking over your thread. Wasn't my original intention but Ron is a good conversationalist so it is interesting to hear his responses.

Ron,

haha, I know, it was a class wide joke. "Just make sure you are really doing what you want to do, before you do it." SEE that is exactly what I tried to do as an undergraduate - get a good track record of success in investing while being in school. How else are you going to increase your confidence in what you are doing? I mean would you rather have someone who has a 4.0 GPA, who merely memorized incorrect theory after incorrect theory that were all full of goofy assumptions (cough Modern portfolio theory, Cough discounting future earnings where you essentially pick a number out of your butt to discount cash flows, COUGH EBITDA, COUGH every single economic projection/ techniques to predict those things from the lat 200 years) or someone who critically thought while trying to apply the information they were receiving to distinguish what was being told to them and what was actually true? I mean if you want to be a money manager in general you have to out perform the S&P500 otherwise you or anyone else can just purchase an index fund. So beating the S&P500 was my goal, not to get a 4.0 GPA. I mean isn't that the point of learning Finance in the first place? Anyone can get ph.d or read a book about Finance, but how many people successfully apply it to perfection? Plus, while you can scale classes and you can be bureaucratic in the workplace the one thing you can't take away from someone is their skills. It also was a way to distinguish myself from the world when going to a not so prestigious University - the University of Nebraska-Lincoln. That was my logic while I was in school but a major difficulty I have had is that the majority of people don't understand what I am doing or even the way that I think so that they don't see it as significant. I mean if I gave my resume to a Todd Combs or a Bruce Greenwald, they are going to recognize a general approach and maybe see the significance of it. IF you give my resume to an HR or an admissions department they don't understand the theory behind what I was doing and the work it took to make those few optimal decisions so it doesn't mean much. But having HR analyze my work is comparable to you or I analyzing some computer programmers work and saying SO WHAT? Even-though, that programmer maybe just figured out the new thing - whatever that is, I don't know anything about programming. WE aren't qualified to analyze that guy because we have no way of even knowing what he is doing or how he is thinking. Anyways, that is the entire reason why I want to apply to b-school, to be marginally better at analyzing companies and to put myself in a more competitive program.

Anyways, thanks again for your always useful advice and I will have to keep you updated on my last GMAT attempt. I am ranging now between a 710 and a 740 so hopefully on test day my efforts are reflected in my score.

-BP
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by bpolley00 » Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:36 am
Also, just for fun while we are on the topic, here is an example how NOT to invest: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/twitter-h ... 13719.html

Don't base your decisions on tweets.
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by lunarpower » Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:21 pm
bpolley, i know very little about finance, so basically everything you are saying here is flying many miles over my head. and, as you yourself pointed out, it's not the topic of the thread.
bpolley00 wrote:a major difficulty I have had is that the majority of people don't understand what I am doing or even the way that I think so that they don't see it as significant.
...
IF you give my resume to an HR or an admissions department they don't understand the theory behind what I was doing and the work it took to make those few optimal decisions so it doesn't mean much.
i believe this is why God made interviews.
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by bpolley00 » Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:10 am
Alright, just having some fun. Anyways, thanks for the advice.
-BP
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