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PR SC: good one

by Gaurav 2013-fall » Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:01 am
Production of the Ford Model T, which was colloquially known as the Tin Lizzie, commenced in 1908, during the presidency of Theodore Roosevelt,was not discontinued until nearly two decades later, during the presidency of Calvin Coolidge, who stimulated competition in the automobile industry by lowering corporate taxes and encouraging consumer spending.


which was colloquially known as the Tin Lizzie, commenced in 1908, during the presidency of Theodore Roosevelt,

colloquially known as the Tin Lizzie, had commenced in 1908, during the presidency of Theodore Roosevelt, and

which was colloquially known as the Tin Lizzie, commenced in 1908, during the presidency of Theodore Roosevelt, and

colloquially known as the Tin Lizzie and commenced in 1908, during the presidency of Theodore Roosevelt it

colloquially known as the Tin Lizzie, which had commenced in 1908, during the presidency of Theodore Roosevelt, and
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by theperegrine » Wed Apr 25, 2012 6:48 pm
a. requires 'and' at the end
b. i dont think past perfect can be used in isolation (without a simple past following it)
c. Correct. 'commenced in A was not discontinued until B'
d. 'it' is redundant
e. 'which had' makes the sentence incomplete considering the non-underlined portion
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by arunima88 » Wed Apr 25, 2012 8:36 pm
Ans C) is correct.

Looking for a 2-3 split.

'which' is used to identify the preceding noun 'Tin Lizzie'. Hence,B), D) & E) are rejected.

For comparing A) and C), 'and' is used in C) and is correct since it is joining 2 independent clauses.

I am new to this explanation thing, Correct me if i am wrong. :)

Regards

AB
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by confuse mind » Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:20 pm
I will go with A since 'and' is not required as the underlined part modifies the 'car' and not the 'production of the car'

The production is modified by the part in continuation of underlined one - was .....


and thus it does not require 'and' to connect.

Comments?
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by Gaurav 2013-fall » Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:28 pm
OA is C
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by [email protected] » Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:32 pm
colloquially known as the Tin Lizzie, had commenced in 1908, during the presidency of Theodore Roosevelt, and

which was colloquially known as the Tin Lizzie, commenced in 1908, during the presidency of Theodore Roosevelt, and


I am just stuck between the options B and C. C was my first choice but what is wrong with option B...

If I say that Sachin Tendulkar began his cricketing career in 1987 and he continued since then never taking a break.
OR

Sachin Tendulkar had begun his cricketing career in 1987 and he continued since then never taking a break.

Usually 'had' is used to mark an event preceding another event. So should we be using the 'had' here as we are already having an event after the word 'and'.

Kindly sort my doubt.
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by confuse mind » Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:05 pm
[email protected] wrote:colloquially known as the Tin Lizzie, had commenced in 1908, during the presidency of Theodore Roosevelt, and

which was colloquially known as the Tin Lizzie, commenced in 1908, during the presidency of Theodore Roosevelt, and


I am just stuck between the options B and C. C was my first choice but what is wrong with option B...

If I say that Sachin Tendulkar began his cricketing career in 1987 and he continued since then never taking a break.
OR

Sachin Tendulkar had begun his cricketing career in 1987 and he continued since then never taking a break.

Usually 'had' is used to mark an event preceding another event. So should we be using the 'had' here as we are already having an event after the word 'and'.

Kindly sort my doubt.


What is wrong with B?

B is missing 'which' since the modifier 'colloquially known as the Tin Lizzie' is not supposed to modify the production of the car but the car itself and thus 'which' is a must!


Secondly, the following sentence is wrong because of the usage of 'had'

Sachin Tendulkar had begun his cricketing career in 1987 and he continued since then never taking a break.

past perfect is used for an event in the past which happened before other and is not continuing. It is used to define one (older)past activity in reference to the other (newer) past activity as the point of observation.

For general, 2 events in the past - we use simple past - even if there is an order of sequence in which they happened.

e.g, The bowler went away from the crease; the batsman got ready at the batting end; the bowler started running fast towards the batsman and finally threw the ball; the batsman hit the ball hard and managed to get 4 runs.
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by confuse mind » Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:08 pm
confuse mind wrote:I will go with A since 'and' is not required as the underlined part modifies the 'car' and not the 'production of the car'

The production is modified by the part in continuation of underlined one - was .....


and thus it does not require 'and' to connect.

Comments?

My mistake and this was a major catch in this question :(

Both the modifiers - 'commenced in 1908' and 'was not discontinued until nearly two decades later' modify the production and thus should be joined with an 'and'.

The correct answer is C

Good question!!!
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by [email protected] » Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:25 pm
colloquially known as the Tin Lizzie, had commenced in 1908, during the presidency of Theodore Roosevelt, and


I guess the problem with the option B is that when you remove the prepositional modifiers from the 'Production of the Ford Model T', production becomes the subject.

And 'collloquially known as the Tin Lizzie, modifies the production and not the ford model T.

But there is also something to do with 'had' here that is for sure...

help needed...
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by patanjali.purpose » Thu Apr 26, 2012 12:09 am
[email protected] wrote:colloquially known as the Tin Lizzie, had commenced in 1908, during the presidency of Theodore Roosevelt, and


I guess the problem with the option B is that when you remove the prepositional modifiers from the 'Production of the Ford Model T', production becomes the subject.

And 'collloquially known as the Tin Lizzie, modifies the production and not the ford model T.

But there is also something to do with 'had' here that is for sure...

help needed...
We use COMPLEX TENSES when there is a absolute necessity. In this case, we have 2 key things that suggest us not to use PAST PERFECT:

1) COMMNENCED IN 1908 (the another time period 1908, suggests we can use simple tense). This coupled with (2) "nearly two decades later" - this confirm our hypothesis that even when we COMMENCED the reader will understand that DISCONTINUATION of production happened TWO DECADES LATER THAN 1908.
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by sam2304 » Thu Apr 26, 2012 2:09 am
Good one. I agree with patanjali, we don't need to use perfect tenses here as the time period is clear.

IMO C as well.
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by [email protected] » Thu Apr 26, 2012 2:20 am
So that means that we do not have to use the 'had' i.e the past perfect tense. What you said Patanjali was clearly understood and was understood.

But supposingly after the word 'and' in the above sentence if there had been any other event or other thing, then the use of had was correct right???

Also see the modifier error in the option B. What reason I gave is that correct...
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by patanjali.purpose » Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:06 am
[email protected] wrote:So that means that we do not have to use the 'had' i.e the past perfect tense. What you said Patanjali was clearly understood and was understood.

But supposingly after the word 'and' in the above sentence if there had been any other event or other thing, then the use of had was correct right???

Also see the modifier error in the option B. What reason I gave is that correct...
Yes agree with you - if the sequence of event after AND were not clear, we would use PAST PERFECT.

Regarding your 2nd point:

IMO "collloquially known as the Tin Lizzie" modifies MODEL T. In order to avoid such confusion whether it will refer to PRODUCTION or MODEL T, author has used WHICH WAS.

We also know that generally VERBED MODIFIERS OF THE FORM (COMMA+VERBED = MODEL T, KNOWN AS THE TIN; or = MODEL T, colloquially KNOWN AS THE TIN) modifies the immediate preceeding noun. Therefore sentence would have been correct with or without WHICH WAS.

But, I have seen cases in which VERBED MODIFIERS OF THE FORM (COMMA+VERBED) modifies far away nouns. IMO, in order to avoid such ambiguity the author of this question has used WHICH WAS. The use of WHICH clearly suggests that WHICH....LIZZIE modifies MODEL T (and NOT PRODUCTION).

Having said that, production (from our own knowledge) cannot be known as TIN LIZZIE and therefore it should refer to MODEL T only
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by GmatKiss » Thu Apr 26, 2012 5:32 am
Gaurav 2013-fall wrote:Production of the Ford Model T, which was colloquially known as the Tin Lizzie, commenced in 1908, during the presidency of Theodore Roosevelt,was not discontinued until nearly two decades later, during the presidency of Calvin Coolidge, who stimulated competition in the automobile industry by lowering corporate taxes and encouraging consumer spending.


which was colloquially known as the Tin Lizzie, commenced in 1908, during the presidency of Theodore Roosevelt, and

colloquially known as the Tin Lizzie, had commenced in 1908, during the presidency of Theodore Roosevelt, and

which was colloquially known as the Tin Lizzie, commenced in 1908, during the presidency of Theodore Roosevelt, and

colloquially known as the Tin Lizzie and commenced in 1908, during the presidency of Theodore Roosevelt it

colloquially known as the Tin Lizzie, which had commenced in 1908, during the presidency of Theodore Roosevelt, and
IMO: C
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by [email protected] » Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:05 am
Thanks Patanjali, for a wonderful explanation... I got your point and you actually sorted all my doubts. Thanks once again...
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