MGMAT SC - Verb Tense Issue - Lack of Clarity

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This question was part of MGMAT CAT 2..now according to the MGMAT SC Guide, the combo of PAST PERFECT + CONDITIONAL PERFECT is for a Case that NEVER happened in the past. Yet, in the question below, the event HAS occurred. Isn't it conflicting? There is no If..Then construction here. Nevertheless this question can be solved using the parallel marker (that). Experts, opinions please!

The health commissioner said that the government had implemented strict measures to eradicate the contaminated food and, despite the recent illnesses, it will try to prevent the outbreak from recurring in the future.

A.it will try

B.that it tried

C.it had tried

D.it would have tried

E.that it would try
Source: — Sentence Correction |

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by smackmartine » Sat Jun 04, 2011 9:42 am
IMO E

@Jayanth2689,
I am not an expert , but wanted to comment on this.
It's true that this sentence is not a conditional statement. Its also true that we need "THAT" to make two statements (said by the health commissioner) parallel. However, we also need to establish a logical sequence of events keeping tenses in mind.
B and E are the only sentences seemingly parallel. Because government laws are meant to be restored, we cannot use a simple past here. "that it tried" would mean that the government tried in the past and did not care about it later. This cannot be the case. So,B is out.

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by champmag » Sat Jun 04, 2011 10:10 am
+1 for E

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by MBACRACKER » Sat Jun 04, 2011 10:12 am
Definitely E

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by aspirant2011 » Sat Jun 04, 2011 10:27 am
though I agree B,C and D are totally out.........but is the usage of comma + that correct??????? because that is used to introduce a restrictive clause...............whats exactly wrong with option A??????

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by Frankenstein » Sat Jun 04, 2011 10:40 am
aspirant2011 wrote:though I agree B,C and D are totally out.........but is the usage of comma + that correct??????? because that is used to introduce a restrictive clause...............whats exactly wrong with option A??????
Hi,
Comma can be used before 'that' if that comma belongs to the modifier.
Cheers!

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by smackmartine » Sat Jun 04, 2011 10:42 am
aspirant2011 wrote:though I agree B,C and D are totally out.........but is the usage of comma + that correct??????? because that is used to introduce a restrictive clause...............whats exactly wrong with option A??????
set of comma has been used to separate despite the recent illnesses , it has nothing to do with THAT.

"A" has parallelism issue. "A" should start with THAT. Also ,usage of Future tense is illogical because the sequence of tense is violated.

present --> future
past --> present
past perfect ----> past
...few more sequences but don't want to confuse you.

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by aspirant2011 » Sat Jun 04, 2011 10:42 am
Frankenstein wrote:
aspirant2011 wrote:though I agree B,C and D are totally out.........but is the usage of comma + that correct??????? because that is used to introduce a restrictive clause...............whats exactly wrong with option A??????
Hi,
Comma can be used before 'that' if that comma belongs to the modifier.
Yup got it, thanks a lot :-)

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by lunarpower » Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:20 am
Jayanth2689 wrote:This question was part of MGMAT CAT 2..now according to the MGMAT SC Guide, the combo of PAST PERFECT + CONDITIONAL PERFECT is for a Case that NEVER happened in the past. Yet, in the question below, the event HAS occurred. Isn't it conflicting? There is no If..Then construction here. Nevertheless this question can be solved using the parallel marker (that). Experts, opinions please!

The health commissioner said that the government had implemented strict measures to eradicate the contaminated food and, despite the recent illnesses, it will try to prevent the outbreak from recurring in the future.

A.it will try

B.that it tried

C.it had tried

D.it would have tried

E.that it would try
this "would" is not a conditional.

see #1 for "would" here:
https://www.beatthegmat.com/demographers ... tml#216712
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by Jayanth2689 » Sun Jun 05, 2011 7:07 am
lunarpower wrote:
Jayanth2689 wrote:This question was part of MGMAT CAT 2..now according to the MGMAT SC Guide, the combo of PAST PERFECT + CONDITIONAL PERFECT is for a Case that NEVER happened in the past. Yet, in the question below, the event HAS occurred. Isn't it conflicting? There is no If..Then construction here. Nevertheless this question can be solved using the parallel marker (that). Experts, opinions please!

The health commissioner said that the government had implemented strict measures to eradicate the contaminated food and, despite the recent illnesses, it will try to prevent the outbreak from recurring in the future.

A.it will try

B.that it tried

C.it had tried

D.it would have tried

E.that it would try
this "would" is not a conditional.

see #1 for "would" here:
https://www.beatthegmat.com/demographers ... tml#216712
Hey Ron, i agree that this would does not agree with the definition of a conditional would. (an unlikely case)

Nevertheless, the OE says differently, am i missing something here?

In the original sentence, the verb "had implemented" is in the past perfect tense, indicating that this event occurred at some point before the commissioner spoke. The verb "will try", however, is in the simple future. When the future is indicated from the point of view of the past, the simple future is not used. Instead, the conditional is required. For example, "The man said that he would buy a new car" is preferable to "The man said that he will buy a new car." We need to find a conditional verb. Moreover, the pronoun "it" begins a new clause and thus requires repetition of "that" in order to make clear, using parallel structure, that this new clause is still something that the commissioner said. For example, "The man said that he would buy a new car and that he would drive it everywhere" is preferable to "The man said that he would buy a new car and he would drive it everywhere."

with reference to the explanation given, does 'conditional' mean MAY/MAY NOT happen? also, i went through the Demographers link you had posted..there you have mentioned this -

"would" has 2 main uses:

1 * it's the past tense of "will". i have no idea what the actual name of this tense is, but you can think of it as "a tense that WAS the future, at that time in the past."
for instance:
Jim knows that his son will make the game-winning shot.
this sentence translates into the past tense as
Jim knew that his son would make the game-winning shot.


SO, my understanding is this - the correct answer should have the past tense of 'will'. But why use the past perfect tense? Couldn't the question have just said -

'the government implemented'

opinion appreciated!

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by lunarpower » Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:51 am
Jayanth2689 wrote:Hey Ron, i agree that this would does not agree with the definition of a conditional would. (an unlikely case)

Nevertheless, the OE says differently, am i missing something here?

In the original sentence, the verb "had implemented" is in the past perfect tense, indicating that this event occurred at some point before the commissioner spoke. The verb "will try", however, is in the simple future. When the future is indicated from the point of view of the past, the simple future is not used. Instead, the conditional is required. For example, "The man said that he would buy a new car" is preferable to "The man said that he will buy a new car." We need to find a conditional verb. Moreover, the pronoun "it" begins a new clause and thus requires repetition of "that" in order to make clear, using parallel structure, that this new clause is still something that the commissioner said. For example, "The man said that he would buy a new car and that he would drive it everywhere" is preferable to "The man said that he would buy a new car and he would drive it everywhere."

with reference to the explanation given, does 'conditional' mean MAY/MAY NOT happen? also, i went through the Demographers link you had posted..there you have mentioned this -
if you want to get technical, the name "conditional" is used for both of the uses i described.

this is why IT IS A REALLY, REALLY BAD IDEA TO WORRY ABOUT GRAMMATICAL TERMINOLOGY, other than
(1) the names of extremely basic units
(2) the names of things that don't have a simple description
.

as an example of (2), the term "past participle" is useful, because there are so many different forms of past participles (given, thrown, driven, dedicated, done, etc.) that it's impossible to describe the concept in a simpler way.
on the other hand, "conditional" is a completely useless name, because you can just call it "would + verb".

true story: i had no idea what any of these names were -- except things like noun, verb, etc. -- until i started teaching for manhattangmat.
true story #2: i still don't know what most of them are called, but i can google them before posting and pretend that i knew them all along. |:

SO, my understanding is this - the correct answer should have the past tense of 'will'. But why use the past perfect tense? Couldn't the question have just said -

'the government implemented'

opinion appreciated!
no, that would be incorrect.
remember, (present + present perfect), when translated into the past, gives (past + past perfect).
so:
He says that the government has done xxxxx
translates into the past as
He said that the government had done xxxxx
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by Jayanth2689 » Mon Jun 13, 2011 8:58 am
lunarpower wrote:
Jayanth2689 wrote:Hey Ron, i agree that this would does not agree with the definition of a conditional would. (an unlikely case)

Nevertheless, the OE says differently, am i missing something here?

In the original sentence, the verb "had implemented" is in the past perfect tense, indicating that this event occurred at some point before the commissioner spoke. The verb "will try", however, is in the simple future. When the future is indicated from the point of view of the past, the simple future is not used. Instead, the conditional is required. For example, "The man said that he would buy a new car" is preferable to "The man said that he will buy a new car." We need to find a conditional verb. Moreover, the pronoun "it" begins a new clause and thus requires repetition of "that" in order to make clear, using parallel structure, that this new clause is still something that the commissioner said. For example, "The man said that he would buy a new car and that he would drive it everywhere" is preferable to "The man said that he would buy a new car and he would drive it everywhere."

with reference to the explanation given, does 'conditional' mean MAY/MAY NOT happen? also, i went through the Demographers link you had posted..there you have mentioned this -
if you want to get technical, the name "conditional" is used for both of the uses i described.

this is why IT IS A REALLY, REALLY BAD IDEA TO WORRY ABOUT GRAMMATICAL TERMINOLOGY, other than
(1) the names of extremely basic units
(2) the names of things that don't have a simple description
.

as an example of (2), the term "past participle" is useful, because there are so many different forms of past participles (given, thrown, driven, dedicated, done, etc.) that it's impossible to describe the concept in a simpler way.
on the other hand, "conditional" is a completely useless name, because you can just call it "would + verb".

true story: i had no idea what any of these names were -- except things like noun, verb, etc. -- until i started teaching for manhattangmat.
true story #2: i still don't know what most of them are called, but i can google them before posting and pretend that i knew them all along. |:

SO, my understanding is this - the correct answer should have the past tense of 'will'. But why use the past perfect tense? Couldn't the question have just said -

'the government implemented'

opinion appreciated!
no, that would be incorrect.
remember, (present + present perfect), when translated into the past, gives (past + past perfect).
so:
He says that the government has done xxxxx
translates into the past as
He said that the government had done xxxxx
:) Thanks ron! i think il go with your INTENDED MEANING logic!..
lastly..the sentence says..
the health commissioner said that the govt
the health commissioner said that it would

so does the usage of that play a role here too? or am i just over interpreting?

anyway i have a fair idea now! thanks again!

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by lunarpower » Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:54 am
Jayanth2689 wrote:lastly..the sentence says..
the health commissioner said that the govt
the health commissioner said that it would

so does the usage of that play a role here too? or am i just over interpreting?

anyway i have a fair idea now! thanks again!
i'm sorry, i don't really understand exactly what you're asking here -- perhaps you can make the question clearer.
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