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Quiz 7 -- Question 4

by Shawshank » Wed Apr 07, 2010 10:40 pm
WHys is "B" wrong in this question.

Isnt the seconds part "to cultivate" dependant on the first part of the sentence. How can they be parallel.
I conciously selected "B" and eliminated "D" as i thouhgt the seconds event depends on the 1st event

Isnt this a case of Superficial Parallelism.
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by rockeyb » Wed Apr 07, 2010 10:43 pm
In (B) Bringing .............. to Calculate .

Is not parallel .

Here improving productivity means = Bringing [x, y and z] AND Calculating .

The correct from should be Bringing ................. Calculating.That is D.
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by Shawshank » Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:09 pm
rockeyb wrote:In (B) Bringing .............. to Calculate .

Is not parallel .

Here improving productivity means = Bringing [x, y and z] AND Calculating .

The correct from should be Bringing ................. Calculating.That is D.
I understand tht they are not parallel..
My question is .. Why do u think thye shld be parallel...

Doesnt the statment mean ..
bringging in seeds, water .... to cultivate the crops. ....


THTAS my DOUBT...
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by thephoenix » Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:13 pm
Shawshank wrote: I understand tht they are not parallel..My question is .. Why do u think thye shld be parallel...Doesnt the statment mean .. bringging in seeds, water .... to cultivate the crops. ....
THTAS my DOUBT...
i think if that wud have been the intended meaning then there sud not be any comma before to
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by Shawshank » Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:23 pm
thephoenix wrote:
Shawshank wrote: I understand tht they are not parallel..My question is .. Why do u think thye shld be parallel...Doesnt the statment mean .. bringging in seeds, water .... to cultivate the crops. ....
THTAS my DOUBT...
i think if that wud have been the intended meaning then there sud not be any comma before to[/quote

Hey Phoenix,

I am talking about Superficial PArallelism here..

I came across this sentece in Manhattan SC showing Superficial Parallelism -- with comma

Ken travlled around the world, visiting historic sites, eating native foods, and learning about new cultures.

wht do u say now,,,
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by rockeyb » Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:43 pm
Shawshank wrote:
rockeyb wrote:In (B) Bringing .............. to Calculate .

Is not parallel .

Here improving productivity means = Bringing [x, y and z] AND Calculating .

The correct from should be Bringing ................. Calculating.That is D.
I understand tht they are not parallel..
My question is .. Why do u think thye shld be parallel...

Doesnt the statment mean ..
bringging in seeds, water .... to cultivate the crops. ....


THTAS my DOUBT...
I dont think that is the intended meaning of the sentence .

The sentence says improving productivity means two things

(1)Bringing [x, y and z] up to to global standard .

(2) Cultivating panama's most promising crops .

If these two things are done then we can improve productivity .


Here technique ,equipments and seed are not required for cultivating crops . But improving the standard of technique ,equipments and seed along will cultivation of crops will increase productivity .
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by akhpad » Thu Apr 08, 2010 12:34 am
Shawshank wrote:
thephoenix wrote:
Shawshank wrote: I understand tht they are not parallel..My question is .. Why do u think thye shld be parallel...Doesnt the statment mean .. bringging in seeds, water .... to cultivate the crops. ....
THTAS my DOUBT...
i think if that wud have been the intended meaning then there sud not be any comma before to[/quote

Hey Phoenix,

I am talking about Superficial PArallelism here..

I came across this sentece in Manhattan SC showing Superficial Parallelism -- with comma

Ken travlled around the world, visiting historic sites, eating native foods, and learning about new cultures.

wht do u say now,,,
--------------------------------------
visiting historic sites, eating native foods, and learning about new cultures.
Yes, this is correct.
This is a modifier - Comma + int setup

I am also finding sometime difficult to distinguish between them (parallel verb or modifier).
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by thephoenix » Thu Apr 08, 2010 12:52 am
time for experts to hop in........
things are beyond my level of knowledge area
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by Shawshank » Thu Apr 08, 2010 12:57 am
rockeyb wrote:
Shawshank wrote:
rockeyb wrote:In (B) Bringing .............. to Calculate .

Is not parallel .

Here improving productivity means = Bringing [x, y and z] AND Calculating .

The correct from should be Bringing ................. Calculating.That is D.
I understand tht they are not parallel..
My question is .. Why do u think thye shld be parallel...

Doesnt the statment mean ..
bringging in seeds, water .... to cultivate the crops. ....


THTAS my DOUBT...
I dont think that is the intended meaning of the sentence .

The sentence says improving productivity means two things

(1)Bringing [x, y and z] up to to global standard .

(2) Cultivating panama's most promising crops .

If these two things are done then we can improve productivity .


Here technique ,equipments and seed are not required for cultivating crops . But improving the standard of technique ,equipments and seed along will cultivation of crops will increase productivity .
hey Rockey.. Thanks for trying buddy, but i still aint convinced...
Bringing techniques, seeds up to given standard --> Does this statement make any sense without the Suffix -- To cultivate Panama's most Promising crops.
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by pops » Thu Apr 08, 2010 10:01 pm
even I go with B :(

bringing techniques, equipment, and seeds up to global standars, to cultivate should be correct..
as the mentioned efforts are to cultivate these crops ... correct answer just adds cultivating to mentioned efforts? IMO B should be correct ?
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by lunarpower » Fri Apr 09, 2010 12:25 am
i actually agree with the original poster on this question -- choice (b) is the best of the available options.

here the reasoning:
both (b) and (d) involve correctly parallel constructions; the difference is solely rhetorical.
in other words, not only do both of those options have parallel elements, but they both invoke those parallel elements in ways that make sense.
the meanings are slightly different -- the version involving "to" indicates a sense of purpose, while the version involving "and" merely states that they are doing multiple things -- but either one of them could be legitimate. (note to test takers: this is one sign of a badly written problem -- you can't even tell what is the intended meaning!)

however, the answer indicated as correct is actually incorrect, since the comma that precedes the word "and" in that choice is straight-up WRONG.
remember that lists of two items connected by "and" do not contain commas, while lists of three or more such items must contain commas.

the problem, then, is that choice (d) actually contains a list of just two items. one of those items is a compound of three things, but, in the context of the larger list, it counts as a single item:

improving productivity means bringing techniques, equipment, and seeds up to global standards AND cultivating...

this is a list of only two items (namely, the items that are highlighted in red), so there absolutely should not be a comma before "and".

from what source is this question taken? i've seen a couple other problems taken from this source, and they have uniformly been awful, almost to the point where i question whether the authors have ever actually taken a look at the actual gmat.
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by akhpad » Fri Apr 09, 2010 1:03 am
Thanks Ron. Perfect explanation.

This question is from https://e-gmat.net. No Idea, it belong to whom.
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by rsadana1 » Fri Apr 09, 2010 4:21 pm
Ron,

It is wonderful to see your response to this post. Responses such as yours add a lot to value the discussion and improve the overall learning of the audience.

"both (b) and (d) involve correctly parallel constructions; the difference is solely rhetorical.
in other words, not only do both of those options have parallel elements, but they both invoke those parallel elements in ways that make sense. the meanings are slightly different -- the version involving "to" indicates a sense of purpose, while the version involving "and" merely states that they are doing multiple things -- but either one of them could be legitimate"


Your analysis above is excellent and to the point. You correctly state that both choices, while grammatically correct, express different meanings.

We have seen a few instances of this in Official Guide, Edition 11 &12, where the question contains multiple grammatically correct choices and the correct answer is the choice that most clearly conveys the meaning in the original sentence. Official Guide considers these (grammatically correct) choices to be incorrect because according to OG, these choices distort the meaning of the original sentence.

Consider for example, Question # 84, OG-12.

The original sentence states that ozone is formed in the atmosphere when A and B react with sunlight.

Choice C - incorrect per OG - states that ozone is formed in the atmosphere and when A and B react with sunlight. This choice while grammatically correct, distorts the meaning of the original sentence because it states that ozone is formed in two ways: 1) in the atmosphere and 2) when A and B react with sunlight.

You may observe similar pattern in question 115 (Gall's hypothesis) where choices B and E are deemed incorrect because they distort the meaning expressed in the original sentence.

Hence OG does seem to follow the principle that the meaning of the correct sentence should be the same as conveyed by the original question stem. This may also be inferred from OG-12: Page 656, Section 9.4- Test Taking Strategies, Point 1, which states that one should try and understand the specific idea or relationship that the sentence should express by reading the entire sentence carefully. We believe that OG seems to imply that "the entire sentence" is "the original sentence".

"However, the answer indicated as correct is actually incorrect, since the comma that precedes the word "and" in that choice is straight-up WRONG.
Remember that lists of two items connected by "and" do not contain commas, while lists of three or more such items must contain commas."

Thanks a lot for pointing out this error. We appreciate your input. We have corrected this question in our database and now the correct answer choice does not include comma.

We will be posting more quizzes in the future and will appreciate if you continue to provide such constructive feedback. Everyone benefits and community learns when the experts respond.
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by pops » Sat Apr 10, 2010 4:53 am
wow !! Thats awesome explaination.. I dint thought that much before selecting B....

Is there a way we can Thank more than once for a wonderful post !!!!
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by Shawshank » Sat Apr 10, 2010 5:03 am
lunarpower wrote:i actually agree with the original poster on this question -- choice (b) is the best of the available options.

here the reasoning:
both (b) and (d) involve correctly parallel constructions; the difference is solely rhetorical.
in other words, not only do both of those options have parallel elements, but they both invoke those parallel elements in ways that make sense.
the meanings are slightly different -- the version involving "to" indicates a sense of purpose, while the version involving "and" merely states that they are doing multiple things -- but either one of them could be legitimate. (note to test takers: this is one sign of a badly written problem -- you can't even tell what is the intended meaning!)

however, the answer indicated as correct is actually incorrect, since the comma that precedes the word "and" in that choice is straight-up WRONG.
remember that lists of two items connected by "and" do not contain commas, while lists of three or more such items must contain commas.

the problem, then, is that choice (d) actually contains a list of just two items. one of those items is a compound of three things, but, in the context of the larger list, it counts as a single item:

improving productivity means bringing techniques, equipment, and seeds up to global standards AND cultivating...

Great explanation RON..
Thanks for replying..
T
this is a list of only two items (namely, the items that are highlighted in red), so there absolutely should not be a comma before "and".

from what source is this question taken? i've seen a couple other problems taken from this source, and they have uniformly been awful, almost to the point where i question whether the authors have ever actually taken a look at the actual gmat.
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