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Under high pressure and intense heat, graphite

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by aspirant2011 » Tue May 31, 2011 8:09 am
Under high pressure and intense heat, graphite, the most stable form of pure carbon, changes into the substance commonly referred to as diamond and remaining this way whether or not the heat and pressure are removed.

A. remaining this way whether or not
B. remaining like that even as
C. remaining as such whether or not
D. remains in this way although
E. remains thus even when

[spoiler]OA: Will be posted later. Please discuss each answer choice in detail[/spoiler]
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by MBACRACKER » Tue May 31, 2011 8:20 am
"Remaining" as in options a,b & c does not gel with the verb "changes". Surely, it has to be "remains". Out of d & e, option e looks more precise.

Answer has to be E.
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by Frankenstein » Tue May 31, 2011 8:31 am
Hi,
IMO E
changes and remains are parallel. So, A,B,C are out.
'in this way' can refer to some process but here it should refer to the state in which carbon stays. So, D is out.

Cheers!
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by aspirant2011 » Tue May 31, 2011 8:33 am
Frankenstein wrote:Hi,
IMO E
changes and remains are parallel. So, A,B,C are out.
'in this way' can refer to some process but here it should refer to the state in which carbon stays. So, D is out.

Cheers!
In option E, I am not able to understand one thing i.e remains what??????
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by Frankenstein » Tue May 31, 2011 8:48 am
aspirant2011 wrote:
Frankenstein wrote:Hi,
IMO E
changes and remains are parallel. So, A,B,C are out.
'in this way' can refer to some process but here it should refer to the state in which carbon stays. So, D is out.

Cheers!
In option E, I am not able to understand one thing i.e remains what??????
Hi,
'thus' can refer to its state(diamond) that is mentioned.

Cheers!
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by aspirant2011 » Tue May 31, 2011 8:51 am
Frankenstein wrote:
aspirant2011 wrote:
Frankenstein wrote:Hi,
IMO E
changes and remains are parallel. So, A,B,C are out.
'in this way' can refer to some process but here it should refer to the state in which carbon stays. So, D is out.

Cheers!
In option E, I am not able to understand one thing i.e remains what??????
Hi,
'thus' can refer to its state(diamond) that is mentioned.

Cheers!
still not clear on the "thus" usage :-(
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by Frankenstein » Tue May 31, 2011 9:01 am
aspirant2011 wrote:
Frankenstein wrote:
aspirant2011 wrote:
Frankenstein wrote:Hi,
IMO E
changes and remains are parallel. So, A,B,C are out.
'in this way' can refer to some process but here it should refer to the state in which carbon stays. So, D is out.

Cheers!
In option E, I am not able to understand one thing i.e remains what??????
Hi,
'thus' can refer to its state(diamond) that is mentioned.

Cheers!
still not clear on the "thus" usage :-(
Hi,
I may not be able to convince you with my limited knowledge but I will just post something that could be useful. We know that answer is either D or E and we are convinced that "in this way" is not apt as it should refer to the state of carbon. But, thus can refer to certain things depending on the situation. 'Thus' can refer to some process that is stated earlier in some cases or it can refer to the 'state' that is mentioned in the statement. So, in this case it refers to the 'state'. Expert opinions would be more comprehensive.

Cheers!
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by aftableo2006 » Wed Jun 01, 2011 7:02 am
E is the correct answer
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by atulmangal » Wed Jun 01, 2011 7:18 am
Hi @Frankenstein

Seems like you are a native speaker. I usually get confused with the usage of pronoun WHEN, in general conversation we use this pronoun a no of times and thats understood but in GMAT or standard written english there are some limitations for the usage of this pronoun. Can u please shed some light regarding its usage??? May be if u can list some examples where its usage is incorrect (which in daily conversations seems correct), that would be really helpful.
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by Frankenstein » Wed Jun 01, 2011 9:14 am
atulmangal wrote:Hi @Frankenstein

Seems like you are a native speaker. I usually get confused with the usage of pronoun WHEN, in general conversation we use this pronoun a no of times and thats understood but in GMAT or standard written english there are some limitations for the usage of this pronoun. Can u please shed some light regarding its usage??? May be if u can list some examples where its usage is incorrect (which in daily conversations seems correct), that would be really helpful.
Hi,
I am not a native speaker of English. Are you just looking for the usage of 'when' as a pronoun or its usage as conjunction as well? I can't give any spontaneous examples. All I can tell you is 'when' is used to point to a time. Expert comments on the usage of 'when' would be helpful as they cover many aspects.
Cheers!

Things are not what they appear to be... nor are they otherwise
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by atulmangal » Wed Jun 01, 2011 9:45 am
Frankenstein wrote:All I can tell you is 'when' is used to point to a time. Expert comments on the usage of 'when' would be helpful as they cover many aspects.
This is what my point is...i mean in many questions i find incorrect options because of the same reason as mentioned above. When we talk about a specific period is it like we are talking about a specific decade etc for example like,

In 1990's, when something...bla bla bla....here its correct.

Some Made up examples here, so please forgive me for faulty logic / grammer. Only suggest that the usage of WHEN is correct or not.

When Japan attacked on Pearl harbor, America declared war against Japan. ---> is this correct

When oil prices will reach to $100 / barrel, many industries in US will become bankrupt.--> Is this correct.
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by Frankenstein » Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:19 am
atulmangal wrote:
Frankenstein wrote:All I can tell you is 'when' is used to point to a time. Expert comments on the usage of 'when' would be helpful as they cover many aspects.
This is what my point is...i mean in many questions i find incorrect options because of the same reason as mentioned above. When we talk about a specific period is it like we are talking about a specific decade etc for example like,

In 1990's, when something...bla bla bla....here its correct.

Some Made up examples here, so please forgive me for faulty logic / grammer. Only suggest that the usage of WHEN is correct or not.

When Japan attacked on Pearl harbor, America declared war against Japan. ---> is this correct

When oil prices will reach to $100 / barrel, many industries in US will become bankrupt.--> Is this correct.
Hi,
Using my knowledge I have acquired from reading GMAT material, I will give the following explanation:
'when' will always refer to/modify a specific time period
When Japan attacked on Pearl harbor, America declared war against Japan. ---> Correct because it was a specific period.

When oil prices will reach to $100 / barrel, many industries in US will become bankrupt.--> Incorrect because it is not specific because we do not when it will happen.

So, for that reason, I think we can say:
When oil prices will reached $100 / barrel, many industries in US went bankrupt -->Correct because it happened at some specific time.

Expert comments on this would be appreciated!!
Cheers!

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by atulmangal » Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:24 am
Frankenstein wrote:
atulmangal wrote:
Frankenstein wrote:All I can tell you is 'when' is used to point to a time. Expert comments on the usage of 'when' would be helpful as they cover many aspects.
This is what my point is...i mean in many questions i find incorrect options because of the same reason as mentioned above. When we talk about a specific period is it like we are talking about a specific decade etc for example like,

In 1990's, when something...bla bla bla....here its correct.

Some Made up examples here, so please forgive me for faulty logic / grammer. Only suggest that the usage of WHEN is correct or not.

When Japan attacked on Pearl harbor, America declared war against Japan. ---> is this correct

When oil prices will reach to $100 / barrel, many industries in US will become bankrupt.--> Is this correct.
Hi,
Using my knowledge I have acquired from reading GMAT material, I will give the following explanation:
'when' will always refer to/modify a specific time period
When Japan attacked on Pearl harbor, America declared war against Japan. ---> Correct because it was a specific period.

When oil prices will reach to $100 / barrel, many industries in US will become bankrupt.--> Incorrect because it is not specific because we do not when it will happen.

So, for that reason, I think we can say:
When oil prices will reached $100 / barrel, many industries in US went bankrupt -->Correct because it happened at some specific time.

Expert comments on this would be appreciated!!
Hi, well even i designed the above examples considering that 1st one is correct and second one is wrong. Good to u thought the same. Now, how u justify the usage of WHEN in this given question


Under high pressure and intense heat, graphite, the most stable form of pure carbon, changes into the substance commonly referred to as diamond and remains thus even when the heat and pressure are removed.
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by Frankenstein » Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:38 am
Hi,
Nice to have a discussion like this. Keep up the good work!
Coming to the usage of 'when' in this particular question, I think it is the best possible option of all and I can confirm this by pasting Ron's post on MGMAT forums:

"there is nothing wrong with the literal interpretation here, i.e., "remains thus even at the moment when x and y are removed".

i agree that "after" would probably be a better choice than "when", but the literal meaning of "when" is certainly not incorrect in this context."

If you want to look into the entire discussion on MGMAT forums, follow :
https://www.manhattangmat.com/forums/sc- ... t7182.html
Cheers!

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by atulmangal » Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:04 pm
Frankenstein wrote:Hi,
Nice to have a discussion like this. Keep up the good work!
Coming to the usage of 'when' in this particular question, I think it is the best possible option of all and I can confirm this by pasting Ron's post on MGMAT forums:

"there is nothing wrong with the literal interpretation here, i.e., "remains thus even at the moment when x and y are removed".

i agree that "after" would probably be a better choice than "when", but the literal meaning of "when" is certainly not incorrect in this context."

If you want to look into the entire discussion on MGMAT forums, follow :
https://www.manhattangmat.com/forums/sc- ... t7182.html
Hi thanks for the link. I agree that Op E is best among all but was a bit suspicious about the usage of WHEN...but since its a GMAT-Prep question so can't question about its authenticity. Also, as Ron suggest that usage is okay so nothing left. Thanks for participating in the discussion and seriously i appreciate if some expert come on and explain some examples where the use of WHEN is INCORRECT for future reference.
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