OG12 - Q123: Modifier and run-on sentence concepts

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Hi,

Although the question is discussed in many threads earlier, I am opening a new thread because all threads, I found, are very old to discuss here and may not interest readers to take up discussion.

Here we go with the question:

123. She was less successful after she had emigrated to
New York compared to her
native Germany,
photographer Lotte Jacobi nevertheless earned a
small group of discerning admirers, and her
photographs were eventually exhibited in prestigious
galleries across the United States.
(A) She was less successful after she had
emigrated to New York compared to
(B) Being less successful after she had emigrated
to New York as compared to
(C) Less successful after she emigrated to New
York than she had been in
(D) Although she was less successful after
emigrating to New York when compared to
(E) She had been less successful after emigrating
to New York than in

OA C
Question: I want to understand how the modifier in C (Less successful .. she had been in) is not a clause when it contains a subject (she) and a past participle verb (had)? I initially marked C as wrong because I understood the modifier to be a clause. This gave me an impression that C creates a run-on sentence (two clauses joined together with a comma).

Could any expert please help me understand what I am missing here?
Regards,

Pranay
Source: — Sentence Correction |

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by killer1387 » Thu Mar 29, 2012 5:40 am
(C) Less successful after she emigrated to New York than she had been in
--> correct

(E) She had been less successful after emigrating to New York than in

okay lemme try out:

you need compared with here because comparison is between like things.
so A/B/D are out.

1) E has different nonsense meaning i.e. this means she was less successful after migrating but its something nuisance; sentence says after migrating she was less successful.

2) E is a run on sentence.

C is correct. The first part here is basically describing the photographer, its not run on construction this is an example of some kind of modifier (dunno the name)..!!

Less successful after she emigrated to New York than she had been in native Germany
,photographer Lotte Jacobi ..............

hope this helps..!!

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by bubbliiiiiiii » Thu Mar 29, 2012 6:14 am
Hi Killer1387,

Thanks for explaining the options.

The kind of modifier you are referring to is may be an adjective modifier. An adjective modifier modifies the noun after comma (photographer Lotte Jacobi in this case).

However, my question is:

Did I correctly identify the modifier as clause?
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Pranay

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by avik.ch » Thu Mar 29, 2012 6:22 am
a clause : a group of words that contain verb in finite form. The verb should be in the verb slot : subject + verb ... ( at times subject is not explicetely mentioned)
If the finite verb is in any other slot then it cannot be a clause.

1. That Jessica is charming blown way his enemies. - this is a faulty sentence, It do contain a finite verb but its a noun clause and the core sentence lack finiteness.

That jessica is charming : noun clause acting as a subject
blown : infinite verb ( we need to add a be verb signifying tense - has/had)

2. She was less successful as compared to his peers.

Subject : She
Verb : was
predicate : less successful
prepositional phrase acting as an adverb of comparison : as compared to his peers

a phrase : a group of words lacking finiteness, it can have a verb but it will lack tense.

Now applying this here :

[spoiler]She is/was[/spoiler] Less successful after she emigrated to New York than she had been in -- here the finiteness is not there in the core sentence.
after she emigrated to New York - is an adverb of time.
than she had been in native Germany - an adverb of comparison.

Yes there are finite verbs, but not in the core sentence : they are in the adverb slot.

So this is a phrase(Technically its called partial phrase) as it lack finiteness -- and hence C is not a run on sentence.

Yes, its a modifier.

Hope this helps !!

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by killer1387 » Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:13 am
bubbliiiiiiii wrote:Hi Killer1387,

Thanks for explaining the options.

The kind of modifier you are referring to is may be an adjective modifier. An adjective modifier modifies the noun after comma (photographer Lotte Jacobi in this case).

However, my question is:

Did I correctly identify the modifier as clause?
Okay could finally have something regarding that part of sentence. This part is absolute phrase not clause. It is a modifier more specifically adjective one.

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by EducationAisle » Fri Mar 30, 2012 9:34 am
bubbliiiiiiii wrote:I initially marked C as wrong because I understood the modifier to be a clause. This gave me an impression that C creates a run-on sentence (two clauses joined together with a comma).

Could any expert please help me understand what I am missing here?
Run-on sentence is not created when two clauses are connected with a comma; Run-on sentence is created when two Independent clauses are connected with a comma.

Let us look at the following sentences:

a) After he scored his hundredth century, Tendulkar heaved a sigh of relief.
b) He scored his hundredth century, Tendulkar heaved a sigh of relief.

Perhaps it is now easier for you to see that a) is correct while b) is a "run-on" sentence. The reason why a) is correct is because After he scored his hundredth century is not an Independent clause and hence, a) is not a run-on. In fact, it is a dependent clause and a dependent clause depends upon an Independent clause to complete its meaning. In this case, the Independent clause that completes the meaning of the dependent clause is: Tendulkar heaved a sigh of relief.

The sentence under consideration is very similar to the above.
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by bubbliiiiiiii » Fri Mar 30, 2012 9:39 am
Thanks Ashish for answering my query precisely.

Could you please point me to other posts which test this concept so that I can gain familiarity with this concept?

Appreciate your help.
Regards,

Pranay

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by EducationAisle » Fri Mar 30, 2012 9:52 am
Not sure of other "posts", but if you perform a Google search on Independent and Dependent clauses, you would get all the information.
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by avik.ch » Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:04 pm
Hi Ashish,

I am not sure how you are drawing analogy between the one above (from OG),which is an adjective phrase, and this example,which is an adverb clause.
Run-on sentence is not created when two clauses are connected with a comma; Run-on sentence is created when two Independent clauses are connected with a comma.

Let us look at the following sentences:

a) After he scored his hundredth century, Tendulkar heaved a sigh of relief.
b) He scored his hundredth century, Tendulkar heaved a sigh of relief.
In A, "after" is a subordinator for the dependent clause - "he scored his hundredth century", Which is an adverb of time for the main clause. In fact all adverb clauses are dependent clauses.

Yes, the second sentence is a run on sentence.

Run on sentence are created when we join two clause - be it dependent or independent - infact, an independent clause are determined by the connector used having both gramatical and functional role. What make a clause is the presence of an finite verb in verb slot of the sentence.

In the above example ( from OG),

"Less successful...." is not an clause. Its a phrase. What makes a clause is the presence of an finite verb in verb slot. Without that it can't be a clause. Here there are finite verb but not in verb slot, they are in adverb slot and hence this is not a clause. This is a phrase acting as an adjective for "photographer Lotte Jacobi".

Here is the parsed structure,

Less successful after she emigrated to New York than she had been in X,Subject

Less successful - adjective
after she emigrated to New York - an adverb of time
than she had been in native Germany - an adverb of comparison.

The finite verbs are in adverb slot.

The two sentence from where this is derived :

Photographer Lotte Jacobi nevertheless earned a small group of discerning admirers, and her photographs were eventually exhibited in prestigious galleries across the United States.

Photographer Lotte Jacobi(subject) is/was ( main finite verb) Less successful(adjective predicate) after she emigrated to New York than she had been in native Germany (adverbs). --- > we delete the subject and the main finite verb, to creat a modifier like this.

Less successful after she emigrated to New York than she had been in X, Subject ....


Please post you views on this. Thanks.

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by EducationAisle » Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:47 pm
avik.ch wrote: a) After he scored his hundredth century, Tendulkar heaved a sigh of relief.
b) He scored his hundredth century, Tendulkar heaved a sigh of relief.

In A, "after" is a subordinator for the dependent clause - "he scored his hundredth century", Which is an adverb of time for the main clause. In fact all adverb clauses are dependent clauses.
Hi Avik, not sure if it is a typo, but he scored his hundredth century is an Independent clause (not a dependent clause).
avik.ch wrote: Run on sentence are created when we join two clause - be it dependent or independent
This does not seem to be correct Avik. However, even as I write this, I do understand that grammarians have such a diverse opinion that you might have come across some publication which mentions that run-ons are created when any two clauses are joined by a comma (though I would be surprised).

So, as long as we are not buried under semantics, we should be ok.

p.s. Rest of your analysis seems accurate; however, the original poster seemed to be under the impression that any two clauses when joined by a comma, result in a run-on. My post was aimed at clarifying that.
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by avik.ch » Sat Mar 31, 2012 12:31 am
Hi Ashish Sir,

Thanks for your reply.
Hi Avik, not sure if it is a typo, but he scored his hundredth century is an Independent clause (not a dependent clause).
yes sir, indeed "he scored his hundredth century " is an independent clause. What I mean here is that "after" is a subordinator that is converting a independent clause into a dependent one. Here it has two role :
grammar : joining two clause
functional : indicating time signifying adverb of time.

In fact, only changing the word "after" will change the meaning as :

Because he scored his hundredth century, Tendulkar heaved a sigh of relief. ( bit stylistically awkward but grammatically correct)

Here the dependent clause is an adverb of reason. Sorry for the above confusion.

I think that in order to join two clause we must need one connector(as the connector will decide the functional and grammatical characteristic of the dependent one) - in which ever form it may be or in which ever slot it takes.

Am I going wrong anywhere ? Please help.

----

Thank you,
Avik

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by EducationAisle » Sat Mar 31, 2012 6:44 pm
Yes Avik, your understanding seems correct.

When you say "connector", I am assuming you mean "conjunciton" (at least for the most part). An easy way to identify is that adding co-ordinating conjunctions (the famed FANBOYS acronym) result in Independent clauses (or vice-versa) while a subordinating conjunction just converts an Independent clause to a Dependent clause.
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by [email protected] » Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:17 pm
This sentence is testing the use of past perfect tense. Here the use of 'had' is very much essential to convey the correct meaning.

Firstly she stayed in Native Germany, then she migrated to New York and after migrating to New York she was not as successful as she was in Germany. This is what the intended meaning of the sentence is....

So whenever you have one thing that occurred before the other thing as well, you use the 'had' to convey the correct meaning.
Plus option C is not a run-on sentence as it correctly modifies the author...

There is no modifier error here, there is only the verb tense error... and that needs to be rectified...


Hope this helps...
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