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Sviatovin (OG13 49)

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Sviatovin (OG13 49)

by alex.gellatly » Tue Jul 24, 2012 6:58 pm
Which of the following most logically completes the argument?
Sviatovin is a medieval Moringian textwhose author and exact date of composition are unknown. However, the
events in the life of Prince Sviatov that the text describes occurred in 1165, and in the diagram of Sviatov's
family that accompanies the text his father, who died in 1167, is identified as still living. Thus Sviatovin must
have been written between 1165 and 1167, assuming that
(A) the life of Prince Sviatov is notthe subject ofany other medieval Moringian texts
(B) the author of Sviatovin intended it to provide as accurate a report about Prince Sviatov's exploits as
possible
(C) the diagram accurately represents the composition of Sviatov's family at the time Sviatovin was written
(D) Sviatovin is the earliest Moringian text whose composition can be dated to within a few years
(E) Sviatovin was not written by Sviatov's father himself
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by shovan85 » Wed Jul 25, 2012 12:39 am
(A) No connection between the text timeline and this option - we are not talking about Prince!
(B) Accuracy of the report about Prince - nothing to do with the text.
(C) the diagram accurately represents the composition of Sviatov's family at the time Sviatovin was written (Left out)
(D) We cannot define "few" - it can be more than 2 years!
(E) Father writes or not, does not give information about the time

IMO C

Can be solved by POE I feel.
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by peterpong » Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:17 am
but I don't understand why statement B isn't the right choice. If we assume, that the author did NOT write a accurate report about Prince Sviatov, then the events desribed in the text must not occur in 1165.
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by David@VeritasPrep » Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:57 am
However, even if the author did not intend it to be a completely accurate report, the events described did not take place until 1165! So the text had to have been written after 1165 unless the author could see into the future!

So of the two dates, 1165 and 1167, 1167 is the more important of the two! 1165 is pretty much guaranteed since the events need to have occurred before they could be written about.

However, the diagram - the one that we rely upon for the 1167 date - may not have been accurate at the time the book was written but may have been designed to illustrate what was happening in 1165-66. For example, there are charts of the structure of the armies in the U.S. Civil War in 1863. Clearly these are not currently accurate and are not designed to be. So we cannot rely on those charts for a date the book was written.

That is why choice C is what we need. If the diagram did NOT accurately represent the family at the time the book was written - but represented the family in years past - then we cannot use the 1167 date and the book may have been written in 1180 or 1200 or 1230, etc.

By the way this is actually #39 from the OG 13th edition not 49 as indicated in the subject line.
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by tanviet » Sat Feb 09, 2013 11:53 pm
I am highly interested in discussion of og questions.

B is a strengthener, the wrong answer on assumption question. presence of B in assumption quesiton troubles us. this situation appear many times on og.

anyone have any tip for this situation?
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by gmat_for_life » Mon Jul 20, 2015 10:25 pm
Hi David,

How about option E? If we negate this option, it would suggest that the text in Sviatovin was written by his father himself. Now, given that his father died in 1167, it can be logically inferred that the text was not written between 1165 and 1167 an inference which would destroy the conclusion. Could you please let me know where I might be going wrong?

Regards,
Amit
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by bubbliiiiiiii » Mon Jul 20, 2015 11:32 pm
Which of the following most logically completes the argument?

Sviatovin is a medieval Moringian text whose author and exact date of composition are unknown. However, the
events in the life of Prince Sviatov that the text describes occurred in 1165, and in the diagram of Sviatov's
family that accompanies the text his father, who died in 1167, is identified as still living. Thus Sviatovin must
have been written between 1165 and 1167, assuming that

BACKGROUND: S Med. Anc. Text. Author and Comp. date unknown.
PREMISE 1: Events described by text occured in 1165
PREMISE 2: Father died in 1967 but identified in text as living
CON:Thus, S must have been written between 1165 and 1167.

(A) the life of Prince Sviatov is not the subject of any other medieval Moringian texts
It does not matter whether life of Prince Sviatov was a subject of other medieval texts because there is not mention of other texts in the argument. Thus, we cannot add a link between this text and other texts.

(B) the author of Sviatovin intended it to provide as accurate a report about Prince Sviatov's exploits as
possible
In this case accuracy of Sviatov's exploits signify that the text was definitely written after 1165. However, no mention about his father's life so we aren't sure of the second date.

(C) the diagram accurately represents the composition of Sviatov's family at the time Sviatovin was written
The author must have assumed that every thing about prince and his family (that includes his father) to be accurate. Thus, correct. If we negate this, the conclusion falls apart.

(D) Sviatovin is the earliest Moringian text whose composition can be dated to within a few years
Out of scope.

(E) Sviatovin was not written by Sviatov's father himself
If we negate this, it acts as a strengthener. Thus, eliminate.
Regards,

Pranay
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by gmat_for_life » Wed Jul 22, 2015 8:41 am
Hi Pranay,

One question. If we negate option E, it would suggest that ' Sviatovin was written by Sviatov's father himself'.Now, the stimulus suggests that his father had died in 1167. As such the conclusion that S must have been written between 1165 and 1167 will be shattered because S must have been written sometime before his death. What do you think?

Regards,
Amit
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by bubbliiiiiiii » Wed Jul 22, 2015 10:12 am
gmat_for_life wrote:Hi Pranay,

One question. If we negate option E, it would suggest that ' Sviatovin was written by Sviatov's father himself'.Now, the stimulus suggests that his father had died in 1167. As such the conclusion that S must have been written between 1165 and 1167 will be shattered because S must have been written sometime before his death. What do you think?

Regards,
Amit
Hi Amit,

Negating option E, suggests that S was written when his father was alive i.e., till 1167 and that is before his death. However, it does not shatter but strengthen the conclusion that yes S was written before 1167.

Hope it helps.
Regards,

Pranay
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by thelionsgate » Wed Jul 22, 2015 10:47 am
gmat_for_life wrote:Hi David,

How about option E? If we negate this option, it would suggest that the text in Sviatovin was written by his father himself. Now, given that his father died in 1167, it can be logically inferred that the text was not written between 1165 and 1167 an inference which would destroy the conclusion. Could you please let me know where I might be going wrong?

Regards,
Amit
gmat for life, why are you negating these answers? This is an inference question. Negation is only helpful with assumptions. With inference questions you need to find an answer that can be logically concluded from the information above. From the info here, there's no way at all to conclude that the father wrote this piece. How could that possibly be proven from the information given?
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by GMATGuruNY » Wed Jul 22, 2015 3:15 pm
gmat_for_life wrote:Hi Pranay,

One question. If we negate option E, it would suggest that ' Sviatovin was written by Sviatov's father himself'.Now, the stimulus suggests that his father had died in 1167. As such the conclusion that S must have been written between 1165 and 1167 will be shattered because S must have been written sometime before his death. What do you think?

Regards,
Amit
E, negated: Sviatovin was written by Sviatov's father himself.
If Sviatovin was written by Sviatov's father himself, then it must have been written BEFORE 1167, when the father was still alive -- STRENGTHENING the conclusion that the text was written between 1165 and 1167.
Since the negation of the correct answer choice must INVALIDATE the conclusion, eliminate E.
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by Sun Light » Thu Jul 23, 2015 8:44 am
alex.gellatly wrote:Which of the following most logically completes the argument?
Sviatovin is a medieval Moringian textwhose author and exact date of composition are unknown. However, the
events in the life of Prince Sviatov that the text describes occurred in 1165, and in the diagram of Sviatov's
family that accompanies the text his father, who died in 1167, is identified as still living. Thus Sviatovin must
have been written between 1165 and 1167, assuming that
(A) the life of Prince Sviatov is notthe subject ofany other medieval Moringian texts
(B) the author of Sviatovin intended it to provide as accurate a report about Prince Sviatov's exploits as
possible
(C) the diagram accurately represents the composition of Sviatov's family at the time Sviatovin was written
(D) Sviatovin is the earliest Moringian text whose composition can be dated to within a few years
(E) Sviatovin was not written by Sviatov's father himself

Can anybody explain options B and C by applying negation technique...
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