I concede defeat..600(38Q,34V) after 9 months of preparation

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by Someone.on.task » Wed Jan 12, 2011 5:57 am
Hi Ron,
I've gone through your posts & really liked the way you identified the problems in the prep strategies various students - what, where they are wrong? I got few answers in the posts that you have written for others.
But need your advice, specifically for my case. Hope to hear from you on this.
I'm an Asian GMAT aspirant, who has been trying to crack the GMAT since 2006. I've appeared for GMAT once in 2006, scored 500 (actual GMAT test) . I stopped preparing thinking that I will prepare for it with my job. Lots of ups & downs in my life (that may sound like an excuse), also personally never attempted to prepare later. In 2009, I again started preparing for GMAT but in my mocks never got more than 500-510. Again gave up! Recently in 2010, something really drastic happened in my life, which changed my outlook towards life, now my approach to life is not lukewarm any more. I know that I have to crack this exam, if I want to move out of this chaos. I again started preparing for it, got 570 in GMAT Prep1, after preparing for 2 months whereas I thought I could easily get more than 600 as I was feeling comfortable with GMAT prep stuff, OGS, MGMT guides etc. I took leave for 15-20 days from work to prepare, but what I see is that my score is not at all improving; instead it is decreasing. Sometimes 42-41-40 in quant; 25-26 in verbal. My target score is 650-680 & I really want to get this score. That's the MISSION of my life now.
I don't think taking leaves in any case helped me. Like you said in your posts I couldn't spend more than 4-5 hours on any given day. I have referred all the resources that have been mentioned on BTG. I can't postpone my exam now, which is scheduled for 18th Jan'2011. In any case I had the opportunity to reschedule but I didn't want to give-up. The point is that I'm not improving! What to do that I can at least cross this barrier of 600? I have never seen a 600 in my mocks ever.
My prep:
1) I finished all the OGs 11th edition. (Quant/verbal/verbal review etc)
2) All MGMATs guide including Manhattan SC, which I completed.
3) Power score guide- CR
4) Kaplan Verbal/Math review etc.
5) SC notes, flashcards etc
6) Practice material from MBA.com
I need a 100 point jump, could you please help me identifying how & where I can improve.
My assessment about my weaknesses:
1) Quant- I'm slow at basic calculations, most of the times I know concepts but at the end some calculation mistake & I don't get the answers matching in any of the five choices.
2) Verbal- Reading fast with good comprehension.
Thanks for your help.






lunarpower wrote:
ok, but, weren't those repeated tests?
Yes Ron they were. However, I don't think that I had more than 6 repeated question on any test -- 6 in both sections combined Q and V. Also, on my 6th MGMAT -- did not have a single repeated question -- I scored 650. My second GmatPrep was also 650.
yeah, well, 6 repeated questions *on an adaptive test* is quite a bit.
even on a non-adaptive test, that's about 8% of the questions. the total spread of the test is 600 points (800 - 200); 8% of 600 is almost 50 points.
... and on an adaptive test the effect is presumably greater, since those 6 extra correct questions would increase the overall difficulty level of the other problems on the test.
so, yeah, 6 repeated problems could very, very easily account for a different of 60-70 (or more points).

scores from tests with repeated questions are meaningless. you MUST ignore them, although you can still get takeaways from the problems.
for sure, I have to think why I want to go to a top school.
THANK YOU!!!
this may be a stupid question, but ... why would you put so much time and effort into the gmat, if you don't yet have a solid reason for even wanting to go to b-school?

that progression doesn't seem logical to me at all; the only progression that seems to make sense is (1) realize that business school is definitely something you want to do, for SPECIFIC reasons xyz, (2) realize that the gmat is an important component of applying to business school, *AND THEN* (3) put a bunch of time and effort into studying for the gmat.

in fact, it seems that there are quite a few posters on here who are following the steps in reverse order -- i.e., posters who are putting tons and tons of time and effort into the gmat, without any sort of SPECIFIC reason to apply to b-school (other than "it will be good for my career" and "i'll be able to make more money", which are NOT *specific* reasons.)

remember that an MBA is a great thing to have if you need it for a concrete reason -- but very possibly a huge waste of time, money, and other resources if you don't really have much of a reason to get it.
i know i've made this point before, but it's worth repeating:
the MBA is the only american professional school degree that does not constitute a license to practice ANY profession.
e.g., a law degree will allow you to practice law. a medical degree will allow you to practice medicine. etc. etc. an MBA will allow you to practice ... nothing.
so:
realize that an MBA will not benefit everyone -- for many people, it will do nothing.
for some people, it will do worse than nothing -- some people have personalities that just aren't suited to management at all (see here: https://www.beatthegmat.com/dissapointed ... tml#327482), and would be better advised to stay in their current field.
if you can come up with VERY CONCRETE, VERY SPECIFIC benefits that an MBA will bring you, then do the gmat and b-school thing.
if you can't, don't.
and, remember, "it will be good for my career" and "i'll be able to make more money" are *NOT* specific and *NOT* concrete. i.e., they are not real reasons.

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by Someone.on.task » Thu Jan 13, 2011 9:37 am
Someone.on.task wrote:Hi Ron,
I've gone through your posts & really liked the way you identified the problems in the prep strategies various students - what, where they are wrong? I got few answers in the posts that you have written for others.
But need your advice, specifically for my case. Hope to hear from you on this.
I'm an Asian GMAT aspirant, who has been trying to crack the GMAT since 2006. I've appeared for GMAT once in 2006, scored 500 (actual GMAT test) . I stopped preparing thinking that I will prepare for it with my job. Lots of ups & downs in my life (that may sound like an excuse), also personally never attempted to prepare later. In 2009, I again started preparing for GMAT but in my mocks never got more than 500-510. Again gave up! Recently in 2010, something really drastic happened in my life, which changed my outlook towards life, now my approach to life is not lukewarm any more. I know that I have to crack this exam, if I want to move out of this chaos. I again started preparing for it, got 570 in GMAT Prep1, after preparing for 2 months whereas I thought I could easily get more than 600 as I was feeling comfortable with GMAT prep stuff, OGS, MGMT guides etc. I took leave for 15-20 days from work to prepare, but what I see is that my score is not at all improving; instead it is decreasing. Sometimes 42-41-40 in quant; 25-26 in verbal. My target score is 650-680 & I really want to get this score. That's the MISSION of my life now.
I don't think taking leaves in any case helped me. Like you said in your posts I couldn't spend more than 4-5 hours on any given day. I have referred all the resources that have been mentioned on BTG. I can't postpone my exam now, which is scheduled for 18th Jan'2011. In any case I had the opportunity to reschedule but I didn't want to give-up. The point is that I'm not improving! What to do that I can at least cross this barrier of 600? I have never seen a 600 in my mocks ever.
My prep:
1) I finished all the OGs 11th edition. (Quant/verbal/verbal review etc)
2) All MGMATs guide including Manhattan SC, which I completed.
3) Power score guide- CR
4) Kaplan Verbal/Math review etc.
5) SC notes, flashcards etc
6) Practice material from MBA.com
I need a 100 point jump, could you please help me identifying how & where I can improve.
My assessment about my weaknesses:
1) Quant- I'm slow at basic calculations, most of the times I know concepts but at the end some calculation mistake & I don't get the answers matching in any of the five choices.
2) Verbal- Reading fast with good comprehension.
Thanks for your help.


Hi Ron,
Apologies for confusion- Post this, I have detailed out my next 4 days (short term) plan.
(could Pm you the link- so the link here for you)

https://www.beatthegmat.com/unable-to-se ... tml#331084





lunarpower wrote:
ok, but, weren't those repeated tests?
Yes Ron they were. However, I don't think that I had more than 6 repeated question on any test -- 6 in both sections combined Q and V. Also, on my 6th MGMAT -- did not have a single repeated question -- I scored 650. My second GmatPrep was also 650.
yeah, well, 6 repeated questions *on an adaptive test* is quite a bit.
even on a non-adaptive test, that's about 8% of the questions. the total spread of the test is 600 points (800 - 200); 8% of 600 is almost 50 points.
... and on an adaptive test the effect is presumably greater, since those 6 extra correct questions would increase the overall difficulty level of the other problems on the test.
so, yeah, 6 repeated problems could very, very easily account for a different of 60-70 (or more points).

scores from tests with repeated questions are meaningless. you MUST ignore them, although you can still get takeaways from the problems.
for sure, I have to think why I want to go to a top school.
THANK YOU!!!
this may be a stupid question, but ... why would you put so much time and effort into the gmat, if you don't yet have a solid reason for even wanting to go to b-school?

that progression doesn't seem logical to me at all; the only progression that seems to make sense is (1) realize that business school is definitely something you want to do, for SPECIFIC reasons xyz, (2) realize that the gmat is an important component of applying to business school, *AND THEN* (3) put a bunch of time and effort into studying for the gmat.

in fact, it seems that there are quite a few posters on here who are following the steps in reverse order -- i.e., posters who are putting tons and tons of time and effort into the gmat, without any sort of SPECIFIC reason to apply to b-school (other than "it will be good for my career" and "i'll be able to make more money", which are NOT *specific* reasons.)

remember that an MBA is a great thing to have if you need it for a concrete reason -- but very possibly a huge waste of time, money, and other resources if you don't really have much of a reason to get it.
i know i've made this point before, but it's worth repeating:
the MBA is the only american professional school degree that does not constitute a license to practice ANY profession.
e.g., a law degree will allow you to practice law. a medical degree will allow you to practice medicine. etc. etc. an MBA will allow you to practice ... nothing.
so:
realize that an MBA will not benefit everyone -- for many people, it will do nothing.
for some people, it will do worse than nothing -- some people have personalities that just aren't suited to management at all (see here: https://www.beatthegmat.com/dissapointed ... tml#327482), and would be better advised to stay in their current field.
if you can come up with VERY CONCRETE, VERY SPECIFIC benefits that an MBA will bring you, then do the gmat and b-school thing.
if you can't, don't.
and, remember, "it will be good for my career" and "i'll be able to make more money" are *NOT* specific and *NOT* concrete. i.e., they are not real reasons.

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by lunarpower » Fri Jan 14, 2011 2:28 pm
responding to a pm.

first, i found the following combination interesting:
Someone.on.task wrote:My target score is 650-680 & I really want to get this score. That's the MISSION of my life now.
...
In any case I had the opportunity to reschedule
...
I can't postpone my exam now, which is scheduled for 18th Jan'2011.
i guess that i don't really understand this combination -- you recently decided to make this test the focus of your whole life, yet you chose not to reschedule it even though you're giving the exam in less than one week? i think i'm missing something here; please explain.
1) I finished all the OGs 11th edition. (Quant/verbal/verbal review etc)
for 99% of the students i work with, "i finished the book" just means "i tried to solve all the problems in the book" -- usually with no review for problems the student got correct, and only brief review for problems the student got wrong. also, i find that it's quite rare for students to look beyond the boundaries of the problem itself; most students don't give enough, if any, thought to generalizing the lessons learned from problems.

you shouldn't consider yourself "done" with the OG books until you are able to do, and have done to the best of your ability, everything listed in the following post:
https://www.beatthegmat.com/550-to-720-i ... tml#330724

this can take a while. in all probability, if your exam is scheduled in the next few days, this advice should be considered pertinent to your future test administrations.
2) All MGMATs guide including Manhattan SC, which I completed.
3) Power score guide- CR
4) Kaplan Verbal/Math review etc.
5) SC notes, flashcards etc
6) Practice material from MBA.com
this is a *lot* of material. from the looks of things, it appears that your ratio of doing problems to reviewing problems has been out of proportion.
if you review as i've indicated in the previous post, then the OG's alone should be sufficient for at least a few months' worth of study -- the above repertory would probably take well over a year.

remember, quantity ≠ quality.
I need a 100 point jump, could you please help me identifying how & where I can improve.
you shouldn't expect a jump of 100 points in four or five days, especially if that jump will require you to retool the fundamental ways in which you approach preparing for, and taking, this test. in other words, if you have decided to keep your 1/18 administration -- no matter what -- then you should go ahead and sit for that administration, but you will most likely have to consider it a data point within the context of a larger study plan.

My assessment about my weaknesses:
1) Quant- I'm slow at basic calculations, most of the times I know concepts but at the end some calculation mistake & I don't get the answers matching in any of the five choices.
if these mistakes are mostly "random" errors (which probably aren't random at all, in reality -- there should be patterns), read here:
https://www.beatthegmat.com/strategies-f ... html#73619

on the other hand, if you actually have a systemic problem with slow and/or inaccurate arithmetic, across the board, then you should actually consider going to the public library, getting out a late-elementary-school math textbook (older is better) with lots of calculation exercises, and going crazy.

in any case:
as for something that you CAN do in four days, go watch the FEBRUARY 4 link at the following site:
https://www.manhattangmat.com/thursdays-with-ron.cfm
if you can internalize those backup techniques -- difficult for people who tend to take an excessively "textbook" approach to the problems, but well worth it -- then you could realize a 20-40% increase in your performance on Problem Solving, and a lesser, but still significant, increase in your performance on Data Sufficiency.

have fun!
Ron has been teaching various standardized tests for 20 years.

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by powerpuff » Fri Jan 21, 2011 5:26 am
Great insights by Ron! Loved reading the discussion.