HowTo: 750+

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HowTo: 750+

by stop@800 » Tue Oct 28, 2008 10:57 pm
Hi,

There are lot of people around who has scored 750+ in final test.
I would request them to please comment on 750+ level questions.

Are they similar to what we usually solve in this forum or way beyond that?

I think Keplan 800 is a reflection of that but where can I find more such questions especially for verbal?


Also, I would like to know in brief about strategy you adopted and your accuracy level during preparation?

I mean what should be my accuracy, approximately, with OG / 1000 series questions that will make me a suitable candidate for atleast 750+?

PS: Others are also welcome to share their experiences and thoughts.

waiting for replies!!!
Thanks a lot for your time and support.

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Re: HowTo: 750+

by logitech » Tue Oct 28, 2008 11:18 pm
stop@800 wrote:Hi,

I mean what should be my accuracy, approximately, with OG / 1000 series questions that will make me a suitable candidate for atleast 750+?
I really don't know what you mean by AT LEAST 750 + but here is my 2 cents:

GMAT test is all about how you apply what you know in a given time.

Your practice accuracies and all other stats are definetly corelated to your success to your GMAT but at the end of the day, it all comes down to how you GMAT, now what you know about GMAT.

Not all tall people play good basketball players, but most of the good basketball players are tall!

So test yourself with GMAT prep, Manhattan Tests and etc and see where you are..

But you should be happy with AT LEAST 750 ;-)

Good luck man!
LGTCH
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Re: HowTo: 750+

by nandansingh » Tue Oct 28, 2008 11:41 pm
stop@800 wrote:
Also, I would like to know in brief about strategy you adopted and your accuracy level during preparation?

I mean what should be my accuracy, approximately, with OG / 1000 series questions that will make me a suitable candidate for atleast 750+?
Please refer my thread in the same forum "Gmatprep score and OG accuracy" by nandansingh.
It will show you my gmatprep scores and the OG accuracy in different attempts

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by Stacey Koprince » Wed Oct 29, 2008 3:56 pm
I received a PM asking me to comment.

The very hardest questions on the test are, of course, harder than most of the questions we see elsewhere, including OG, GMATPrep, and other sources that we see here on BTG. Some questions from these sources are as difficult as the hardest questions on the official test, but most (by definition) are not at the 99th percentile level.

I did not keep track of my accuracy level when preparing for the test the first time, so I can't actually answer that part of your question. I didn't worry so much when I got a question wrong - instead, I concentrated on learning what I needed to learn in order to get similar questions right in the future.

I spend a lot more time going over problems I'd already done than I spend doing new problems. So I might spend 5-10 minutes going over a problem that I spent 2 minutes doing. (And I do this whether I get it right or wrong.)

Of course, if there was anything I didn't understand in terms of the fundamental concepts being tested, I go back to my source books. Everybody does this, but this is only the beginning of effective study! Some of the other things I'm looking for as I analyze the problem:

- What was this problem really testing? (in terms of both concepts - eg, math or grammar rules - and process - eg, overall question type, question sub-type, test-taking techniques, etc.)

- Did I recognize right away that this is what the problem was testing? If not, how will I recognize it right away when I see another problem that's testing the same thing in the future? What are the clues - keywords, problem set-up, whatever? (And, if keywords, what are other synonyms that could work just as well? eg, "factor" and "product of two integers" often indicate the same thing)

- Did I do the problem in the best way it could have been done? (Most of the time, if it's something I didn't recognize / haven't seen before, then I did NOT do it the best way it could be done, because I had to figure out what to do from scratch.) What are some better ways to approach it? How will I recognize in future that I should approach a similar problem in this same way?

- How would I make an educated guess on this problem? (educated guess = eliminate some wrong answers) It's easier to figure out HOW to do this on problems I got right b/c I understand how they work; then I apply that same process to problems of the same type that are too hard for me to do the regular way.

- What traps / tricks are built into the answer choices? On quant, what is the most common math mistake and which answer does that lead to? (See if you can figure out how they got to at least two of the wrong answers - those wrong answers aren't just random numbers or expressions!) On verbal, what is the most tempting wrong answer, why is it tempting, and why is it wrong anyway? Why would someone be tempted to cross off the right answer?

My ultimate goal is to understand any concepts / logical thinking being tested, devise the best way for me to think through and answer the question, and figure out how I'm going to recognize a similar problem in the future, so that I can go use the "best way" again on that new problem. If I can recognize what to do, then I both save myself time (because I don't have to spend a minute or so figuring out what's being asked) and increase my accuracy (because the method I use to solve is something I've tried before and I know that it works on a problem of this type). That's the "holy grail" of doing well on these kinds of tests!
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by stop@800 » Thu Oct 30, 2008 5:36 am
Thanks a ton Stacey...

Great answer, beyond all my expectations!!!
a lot to learn.

One small question,
Where can I find those 99 percentile Questions for verbal?

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by sxdas » Thu Oct 30, 2008 6:13 am
Stacey Koprince wrote:I received a PM asking me to comment.
My ultimate goal is to understand any concepts / logical thinking being tested, devise the best way for me to think through and answer the question, and figure out how I'm going to recognize a similar problem in the future, so that I can go use the "best way" again on that new problem. If I can recognize what to do, then I both save myself time (because I don't have to spend a minute or so figuring out what's being asked) and increase my accuracy (because the method I use to solve is something I've tried before and I know that it works on a problem of this type). That's the "holy grail" of doing well on these kinds of tests!
Hi Stacey,

I've been going by your words, verbatim at that, and have reached a point where I've realized my 2 weaknesses-in fact the only ones-which are dragging me down while I ascent.
1. Math: Problems combining inequalities with DS
Somehow, I've got this idea embedded deep within my brain cells that these are problems I can't solve. I finally thought I've got over it when I was beginning to get the concepts right after reviewing the ones I got wrong a number of times. However, I've discovered that it was not my learning that has improved, but subconsciously the answers and explanations to them are all known to me now, and I've already exhausted the ones in the OG and Math Review. To my surprise, when I test myself with new questions combining these concepts, I get them wrong again.Now that I've exhausted the official question set, can you please suggest what I can do best as I do not want to lose out on Math???

2. Verbal: RC Mishaps
Stacey, I've tried the skimming technique that you employed in one of your posts to get rid of RCs. I would be really obliged if you could tell attach a detailed strategy note as a reply to this post to help me out. And also, does the 4th RC really make a difference when I'm in the 32-40 RAW score level? In fact, 38-40 is what I'm aiming at. So, what can you prescribe for me ? Frankly, the act of cheating my mind by skimming a passage and getting to comprehend right is what is holding me back in improving my confidence on RCs. Being an instructor, I'm sure you've dealt with cases like mine wherein I need to break out of the contemporary shackles of reading. Would you recommend continued training with RCs to improve on these?? Or something unique. One can't try the same RC again to check if one has improved, just as in the earlier case, one would have already familiarized with the answer.

Help me please.[/u]

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by Stacey Koprince » Thu Oct 30, 2008 5:48 pm
Very hard verbal questions: the highest-numbered SC and CR questions in OG. Unfortunately, RC questions are grouped by passage, so you don't know which are the hardest. For RC, inference and specific detail questions tend to be harder than main idea questions. "Minor" question types tend to be harder than inference and specific detail questions.

Some of the questions in our online questions banks are very difficult. You have access to those question banks if you are either one of our students or if you've bought our verbal books. We also have a workshop targeted at the hardest SC questions; they are not all 99th percentile, but they are all 90+ percentile.

I'm sure other companies also have collections of very hard questions, so you may want to ask the experts who represent those companies.

Inequalities + DS
Go back and look at some of these again. Figure out: what are these inequalities really telling me and what are they really asking me? For example, if I see something just with variables, I know that they're probably testing some number property theory. If I see <0 or >0 at any point, I'm pretty sure that the issue is a positive / negative issue. Same if I see absolute value with inequalities. If I see a DS yes/no question with just variables, I know that I'm probably going to need to try some different numbers to see what's going on. And so on.

So see if you can start to categorize certain types of inequalities + DS set-ups (eg, value vs. yes/no questions, or pure theory questions with no real numbers, etc) and what they should trigger you to do (in terms of setting up the problem). Literally make a list - if I see A, it probably means B, and I should try doing C.

Then start trying some new problems to see if you can execute on your new plans.

The 4th RC can certainly make a difference, just as any other RCs can. RCs typically mean 3 or 4 questions in a row, and we can't afford to make mistakes or give up on 3-4 questions in a row anywhere on the test.

So, one of the things you need to do is change your mindset. This test does not work in the way we'd expect things in the real world to work. In the real world, you'd have a lot more time to thoroughly examine some piece of writing, and then you'd probably be asked to write something yourself, or discuss the writing, not just answer a bunch of artificial, multiple-choice questions. So don't get sucked into thinking that just because they call it "reading comprehension," you have to read and comprehend it in the same way you would something you need to comprehend in the real world.

Have you seen this post before?
https://www.beatthegmat.com/verbal-strategy-t14035.html

It contains some detailed notes about how to approach RC passages and questions. Also know this: the notes you take should be specific enough for you to be able to answer any main ideas from your notes, but the notes should NOT be specific enough to be able to answer any inference or specific detail questions from your notes. Instead, for those, you should just be able to use your notes to figure out (quickly!) which paragraph is most likely to contain the information you need to answer the question. Then you go to that paragraph and learn what you need to learn to answer the question.

Finally, something that may help you with changing the "I must read this very carefully" mindset. For any given passage, about twice as many questions are written as are actually given to any one person. So, they may write 7 or 8 questions for a passage, but you'll only see 3 or 4 of them. This means that you are guaranteed not to get asked about all of the detail in the passage. Why learn it if you aren't going to get asked about it?

And you can actually get better by going back to RCs you've already done. Go look at your notes. Did you write down too much or too little on the first read-through? If you wrote down too much, what could you get rid of, in hindsight? If you didn't write down enough or didn't write down the right things, what should you have written down, in hindsight? (Again, remember: high level stuff should be written down; details should not be.)

Did what you wrote down actually match the points being made, or did you misunderstand anything on the first read-through? If you misunderstood something, why? What can you do next time to avoid that?

Could the stuff you wrote down actually be used as a credible outline for the passage - what someone would have written before they wrote a first draft?

Also, when we do stuff in OG, we see ALL of the questions - but that's not what we'd see on the test. Pick three or four of the questions randomly. How much of the total passage is covered by just those 3 or 4 questions? Prove to yourself that you won't get asked about everything!
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by Toph@GMAT_REBOOT » Fri Oct 31, 2008 7:44 am
Stop,

I can't give you any better advice than Stacy did. Understanding how to attack questions is obviously the key to the exam. Harder questions still deal with the core concepts most of the time. One point that I will add is that good time management skills will be repaid when/if you reach these harder questions.

If you think about it:
SC questions still have to be grammatically correct without changing the meaning.
Answers to RC questions still must be found or able to be drawn from the passage.
CR questions still will only have on answer that correctly answers the question without being out of scope (this point is harder to make with one sentence because of the various types of CR questions)
PS and DS questions still must follow the rules of math.

A lot of these harder questions may have a "connection" you have to make. While you may miss the "trick" if you're rushing through the questions, pressed for time, and worried about finishing the exam, if you can keep yourself "ahead of the clock," it is much easier (at least for me) to focus on the questions without missing anything.