How to deal with a low GPA

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by Lisa Anderson » Mon Mar 21, 2011 9:35 am
Dear streetpunkstar,

The GMAT is a tough beast to slay. You should be proud of the progress that you have made though as it is tough to obtain 50+ point increases. To answer your questions:

- The more work experience I get, does the GMAT score matter much to admissions? If I wait 5 more years?
All application components matter, but one is not more important than another regardless of your work experience. The components are viewed holistically such that where you are low on one, you can balance it with being high on another. The GMAT will always be viewed as a valid measure of aptitude regardless of your amount of work experience.

- How many times do I have to take the GMAT before it starts to hurt me with Admissions? 3? 5? 10? 20? I know you can only take the GMAT only 5 times a year, two months apart. I assume the Univ. of Colo. take the highest score in the past 5 years? I hear some take the average!...I guess maybe I am asking these questions to avoid improving my GMAT score and taking my chances with the Admissions process, but I also hear if you score a certain score over and over, its not worth working on it any further...
While there are some schools that believe taking the test more than 3 or 5 times is futile, the majority of admissions folks do not view your number of test attempts either positively or negatively. Test statistics do show that most people tend to stabilize in a certain score range after 4-5 attempts though, giving credence to the idea that it might not be worth it to continue to take the exam. However, there are exceptions who achieved that score increase on the 6th or 8th attempt.

Most schools use the GMAT attempt with the highest total score in an applicant's evaluation. I have not heard of any school's averaging test scores, but there could be one out there that does.

- If I take a course thru a college to build a secondary transcript (taking Business classes) and show that I can score A's, how much does that help me with Admissions?
A secondary transcript can be helpful when you did not perform well in college. It demonstrates you can succeed in the classroom and are committed to your studies at this point in time. Be thoughtful in the courses you select though as most schools would rather see you take math classes (college algebra, calculus) if you did not earn high grades in quant courses in college (and your quant score on the GMAT is low). Solid business courses to take would be statistics, finance or accounting.

My final piece of advice for you is to visit these schools and speak with an admissions professional regarding your profile at each program. They will give you the best insight into how you measure up and how best to mitigate any potential weaknesses in their eyes.

Good luck,
Lisa
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by streetpunkstar » Mon Mar 21, 2011 10:06 am
Thanks for the input! I am glad you gals do this service to keep us in reality! :)

I have more questions.

Does having a high quant. score on the GMAT fair better than a low one? My quant. is far better than my verbal. (It's probably again, "looked as a whole" but I thought I'd ask.)

On my academic transcript, the math courses are mostly high level math courses for engineers (differential equations, matrix algebra, etc.) Would you still suggest I take something like College Algebra or "business" Calculus? (I'm pretty sure I can "roast" these classes with an A!)

Finally, is there any MBA courses I can take (in Colorado or elsewhere,) say if my profile is the best its going to get? :(

streetpunkstar

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by kadiep » Tue Mar 22, 2011 4:16 pm
I last posted on here on 12/06/10 about MaCC admission and low gpa. Excerpt below:

"This might be a bit off topic as I am looking at the MaCC program at UNC. I graduated from Pepperdine University in 2008 with a double major in economics and political science. I received a 3.012 in undergrad and have no other excuse other than lack of focus/motivation. I did, however, take 2 accounting courses during my last semester and received an "A" in both (I loved the material!). Since graduation, I served in an Americorps program (City Year) where I held various leadership roles and worked in an elementary school as a tutor/spanish teacher. I am now studying for the GMAT and plan on taking the test in mid-March. I received a score of 650 (44Q/34V) on my first practice test (MGMAT Free CAT). I am hoping I can raise my score to the 700 range the time I take the test."

Since that post, I have taken the GMAT and scored a 740. I've also been hired by Pepperdine University as a Senior Client Technologies Analyst (20% End-User Support/80% Academic Computing) and have been admitted to USC's MPA program. Because of my score on the GMAT, I'm strongly considering some top 25 schools, such as UNC, UCLA, USC, and Berk. If these schools aren't within my reach, are there other top-tier programs that are? If not, then I will definitely stick with the MPA program.

My work experience post-college is as follows:
1 yr. with City Year (think of CY as the Peace Corps for the US) as a Corps Member - non-profit/education
1.5 yr. w/ a small private elementary school where i provided remediation and taught- education
2 mo. w/ Pepperdine - Information Technology

I have tons of leadership experience from college and City Year. At CY, I was one of two corps chosen to represent the LA site at CY's national summit. Also led my colleagues in various roles throughout the year. In my current position, I will be hiring and managing a few students workers in the near future. I also have a pretty good track record of volunteer work, and I am in the planning stages of launching my own microconsulting NPO that provides low cost sustainable technical solutions to small to medium size non-profits. This should be done by Sept.

My long term goal is to become an executive director of a large non-profit or to start and run my own non-profit. How I get there, is to be determined. While the MPA option is cheaper, The MBA option is intriguing to me for several reasons. Experience in the for-profit world, especially with top companies, would be invaluable in the non-profit world. Also, the connections I would develop during b-school and beyond could be HUGE in the non-profit world (non-profits need to get funding somewhere!).

I know I probably fall under the non-traditional applicant category but input would be greatly appreciate...again =)

-----------edit---------------
I just found this on another thread. Here is a little more info:

In order to give an initial assessment of one's chances of admittance to a particular set of schools, I would like to know the following:
- GMAT with breakdown
740 (48q/44v)

- resume highlights, including company name, job titles and promotions
Job titles
-Corps Member for City Year
-Went above and beyond by taking on a lot of extra responsibility, such as giving up 2 weekends a month to lead a group of high school students through a leadership development program and working an extra 2 hours per day to plan and execute a school renovation project that engaged over 500 volunteers and transformed a large middle school.
-Executive Director of Camp City Year (free week-long educational camp for 450 LAUSD elementary students)
-Teaching Associate at Quality Education Institute
-Senior Client Technologies Analyst at Pepperdine University
-I was featured by Starbucks and GOOD Magazine in a documentary on my impact in the school I worked at.

- extracurricular involvements
Psi Upsilon Fraternity
-Was the service chair for two terms. In that role, I started a philanthropy, created a network of service contacts throughout los angeles, and led my fraternity in performing the most community service out of all greek organizations on campus (service award).
-Led Bible studies
-Tutored local children in various subjects

- interesting personal facts - countries lived in, challenges faced, unusual interests
-Lived with an Argentine family in Buenos Aires, Argentina for one year during my sophomore year of college.
-Have struggled with anxiety and ADHD my entire life.
-Avid rock climber

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by Bal » Wed Mar 23, 2011 12:16 am
hi
am planning to apply for PhD in management from INSEAD(being my first priority)GMAT 780
I have a low GPA 2.6 in undergrad and I also have a maters degree in organizational development but GPA still comes out to be 2.0 (Well i just dont understand the concept of GPA as in my class I was among the top 5 students,yet with the GPA logic I am at quite less score-I used the GPA calculator given at mba.com as a reference)also i will be having approx 2 yaers work experience as Assistant Mnager-HR in one of the good companies in India..
Please let me know my chances

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by Lisa Anderson » Wed Mar 23, 2011 8:48 am
streetpunkstar wrote:Thanks for the input! I am glad you gals do this service to keep us in reality! :)

I have more questions.

Does having a high quant. score on the GMAT fair better than a low one? My quant. is far better than my verbal. (It's probably again, "looked as a whole" but I thought I'd ask.)

On my academic transcript, the math courses are mostly high level math courses for engineers (differential equations, matrix algebra, etc.) Would you still suggest I take something like College Algebra or "business" Calculus? (I'm pretty sure I can "roast" these classes with an A!)

Finally, is there any MBA courses I can take (in Colorado or elsewhere,) say if my profile is the best its going to get? :(

streetpunkstar
It is always best to have a high quant score on the GMAT, especially if you did not do well in quant coursework in college or do not have much quant background. You do want to have strong scores on both the quant and verbal sections, but the quant score is certainly scrutinized as a measure of your ability to handle the quant/analytical rigor of business school. As for what courses to take, if you only scored C's or lower in your math classes (regardless of the level), then yes, taking calculus and college algebra is best to show you have a command of the math needed for the core finance and accounting courses in business school. If you can earn A's in these classes, all the better as you want to earn A's in any new coursework.

I still think the programs you are looking at in Colorado are within reach for you (UC-Boulder, UC-Denver, U of Denver). You might also look into some of the smaller programs at CSU or School of Mines as well. If you are willing to relocate, then that opens up other possibilities for you and you might read our sticky on school selection for some tips on identifying potential programs.

Regards,
Lisa
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by Lisa Anderson » Wed Mar 23, 2011 8:55 am
Dear kadiep,

I think an MBA or a dual MBA/MPA program might be a great option for you based on your goals. There are so many options (great schools, great programs) that doing some research on these options is worth your time. My advice before you start researching and evaluating programs though is to come up with your own criteria for what you seek/expect and prioritize that list. That way, as you research programs, you can determine if the program is a good fit and where it falls on your target list. It is a good time to get started as you want to have your target list refined by early summer so you can focus on applications once they are released in July/August and get them submitted in the first round. For additional tips on identifying schools, you might read our sticky on school selection.

Best of luck,
Lisa
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by Lisa Anderson » Wed Mar 23, 2011 9:02 am
Bal wrote:hi
am planning to apply for PhD in management from INSEAD(being my first priority)GMAT 780
I have a low GPA 2.6 in undergrad and I also have a maters degree in organizational development but GPA still comes out to be 2.0 (Well i just dont understand the concept of GPA as in my class I was among the top 5 students,yet with the GPA logic I am at quite less score-I used the GPA calculator given at mba.com as a reference)also i will be having approx 2 yaers work experience as Assistant Mnager-HR in one of the good companies in India..
Please let me know my chances
Dear Bal,

PhD evaluations are different from MBA admissions evaluations, so I will try to help as best I can with my limited knowledge from working in the academic environment. Your high GMAT and high class rank in your master's program will be an asset for you. INSEAD, like most top business schools, is familiar with the grading scale differences around the world, so I think the assessment of your academic performance will be more favorable than what you currently feel it is based on the GPA calculator. If you are willing to spend the resources, you could have your transcripts evaluated by an academic credentialing services to get a more accurate assessment. These evaluations are accepted my most schools; however, they are not always necessary. For PhD programs, a large part of your evaluation comes down to your intended focus of research and rationale for the degree; you need to make a compelling case for why INSEAD is the right school for you to be at as you study and conduct research. If there is a specific faculty member and/or resources at INSEAD, be sure to highlight those in your rationale.

Good luck,
Lisa
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by streetpunkstar » Wed Mar 23, 2011 11:22 am
Thank you Lisa!

I will continue the push for a higher score. And I will apply to some math classes! :)

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by daniel51 » Wed Apr 13, 2011 1:30 pm
Hello,

I had a question regarding what I can do to maximize my admissions chances. I graduated from a top Canadian Business undergrad program, with a 2.7 about 1 year ago. Since then I have been working and gaining experience. My extra-curricular activities show tons of leadership experience (I was the president of a student council representing over 4000 students). I am aiming for a top 5 school in either Canada or California (UofT, Queens, McGill, Schulich, Ivey, UCLA, Stanford, Berkeley, Marshall, Irvine, Davis).

If I want to be accepted into one (or several) of these top tier schools,
-What GMAT score should I aim for? (Currently on Practice tests I am within the 95th percentile for Quantitative and 70th percentile for Verbal)
-How will my low GPA affect my admission chances and what can I do to help this situation?
-If my low GPA can be attributed to my focus being on my extra-curricular activity and internship rather than my academics, would this be something admissions committees would understand, or is it best to leave that out?
-My current work experience is a mixture of 1 year internship experience (while in school), 5 months of working in a marketing agency, and 7 months of running my own business, how much more work experience should I aim for, considering my low GPA? At what level should my business be before I apply, or if I got a job working at a marketing agency again what level should I work up to before I apply?

I really appreciate all suggestions and advice you could give me!

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by Lisa Anderson » Mon Apr 18, 2011 11:06 am
Dear daniel51,

-What GMAT score should I aim for? How will my low GPA affect my admission chances and what can I do to help this situation? If my low GPA can be attributed to my focus being on my extra-curricular activity and internship rather than my academics, would this be something admissions committees would understand, or is it best to leave that out?
Your GPA is one of many components used to evaluate you from an admissions perspective. It is not more or less important than any other measure; however, it is a gauge on how you will handle the rigor of the classroom. Thus the best way to mitigate a low GPA is to score well on the GMAT, ideally above the average for your target schools. You should also write an optional essay or paragraph on your undergraduate academic record, noting any mitigating circumstances like working during school or personal reasons that might have impacted your performance.

-My current work experience is a mixture of 1 year internship experience (while in school), 5 months of working in a marketing agency, and 7 months of running my own business, how much more work experience should I aim for, considering my low GPA? At what level should my business be before I apply, or if I got a job working at a marketing agency again what level should I work up to before I apply?
It is not the quantity of work experience that matters as much as the quality of that experience. If you feel you are ready to enter business school in fall 2012, then you should apply in the next admissions cycle (starting Aug/Sept 2011). There is not a preferred point in anyone's career from an admissions perspective; the admissions committee is looking for you to provide a solid rationale as to why now is the right time for you to go to business school in relation to your experience and future career goals.

Good luck,
Lisa
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by thebigkats » Sat Apr 23, 2011 5:49 pm
Hi:
First of all, thanks for your advise.. I have been through the entire thread and have discovered loads of info. I had a couple of small Qs -
1. I did my BS from a college in India and topped the university. How do I get GPA / prove it (that I did indeed top the class should I need to prove it)
2. I am planning to apply for Haas with GMAT score of 710, 16 years of experience and current position as a very senior engineer with world's top semiconductor company. What are my chances (also... I am 37 year old male originally from India)

best regards,
---------------------------------
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by Lisa Anderson » Tue Apr 26, 2011 10:42 am
Dear thebigkats,

You must submit a transcript from your university. Most transcripts will note class rank if the school does rank the students. The transcript will also show your GPA on the scale of the school. For the most accurate GPA conversion, you could have it evaluated by a credentialing service. Other than on official documents like a transcript or evaluation by a credentialing service, there is no way to prove your GPA or class rank.

With regard to Haas, you have a competitive GMAT and enough experience, but those two items will not guarantee admission. I do not have enough information to really comment on your chances one way or the other. To give yourself the best chance, use each application component to your advantage to make your case for admission. In other words, don't give the committee a reason to pass on you, but every reason to want you in the class.

Good luck,
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by mfell » Wed Apr 27, 2011 8:22 am
Hi Lisa,

I am a recent graduate with B.A. in international affairs. Unfortunately, I ended up with a ~2.6 GPA due to some personal issues I was dealing with during my undergraduate career. I would like to get my MBA eventually but am not planning on aiming for top tier business schools, mostly just schools within the D.C. area that offer part-time or an online MBA program. I don't plan on applying for a few more years because I would like to build up more work experience, but you do you have any advice on whether or not I can be admitted to a program with such a low GPA and what my GMAT scores will need to look like in order to get into that type of program?

On a separate note, if I chose to pursue my MBA in a full time program abroad, will my GPA scores matter as much?

Thanks.

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by Lisa Anderson » Wed Apr 27, 2011 11:16 am
Dear mfell,

GPA always matters--but it will not hold you back from attending business school in the future. Your GPA is a reflection of your academic aptitude and performance. However, you can also mitigate a below average GPA with a strong GMAT score, a successful professional record, and an alternative transcript. Since you are planning so far in advance, you have time to craft your strategy and build up other application components to balance out your GPA. Where your GMAT score needs to be is a moving target as it depends on the schools you are considering, but you do want to be above the school's average if possible. If you take any courses to build an alternative transcript, take quantitative courses like finite math, college algebra and calculus; these math courses are viewed as more valuable for your preparation than an accounting or finance class.

Good luck,
Lisa
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by bschoolmania » Fri May 20, 2011 6:47 am
Hi Lisa,

Thanks so much for this thread! I'd value you your perspective. I have an UGPA of 2.7 (cumulative)in business from a top 30 school.

This is due to a terrible first year where I failed an English course (yes, it is possible). In sum , my year 1 GPA was 1.77 and I was placed on academic suspension for a year. GPA improved pretty steadily thereafter; my last semseter of senior year I had a 3.38 (deans list) and a 3.4 in my finance concentration overall.

My work experience shows strong progression at one of the largest financial services firms in the country and have 6 years experience. I have some interesting extracurriculars that I will be able to speak to (producing music etc.) My GMAT has been a bit scattered in practice between 730-670; I'm taking a course to ensure that it is over 700.

I have 2 questions:

1. Should I take any clases for alternative transcript?
- In my first year I got a C- calc, and don't have any econ on my transcript as I placed out from high school. In my last two years, however, I never recieved below a B in my modelling / statistics / finance courses. I'm looking to apply in fall, so the timing would be tight.
- If you think I should take a few courses, any advice on what to take? (I was thinking an econ course...)

2. Do I have a shot at the schools below:
Tuck, Yale, Cornell, NYU, Duke, MIT, Wharton