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Recommendation on # of tutoring hours?

by SDHoost » Mon Jan 19, 2015 3:16 pm
A bit of background:

I took the GMAT four years back & got a 710 (44/44/6). I was a senior in college and had very little use for the test as I was only applying to MBA programs as a fallback if I didn't find a job. As a result I did not study nearly as hard as I should have. Now that I'm ready to enroll in an MBA program with some work experience I want to retake the exam. I'm shooting for M7 and want to raise my test scores to be a competitive applicant. I went to a school you've never heard of and so I figure that means I need a 750 or higher.

I don't really think I need any help with verbal; while I'd certainly be happy with a higher score, I understand the core concepts and feel confident in self-study. Quant, on the other hand... I want to raise my score to 50+ and will definitely need assistance getting there. I wasn't bad in math growing up, but I didn't brush up on my basic math skills before the test and suffered accordingly.

With all of that said, I have my eye on a 12-15 hour tutor program (probably through Veritas, although I'm open to suggestions if one program is particularly renowned for its Quant instructors). Is it a realistic expectation that 12-15 hours of tutoring & 2-3 months of self-study could improve my quant score by 6-10 points, given that I really didn't study much the first time around? Or will I probably need to invest in more hours?

Thanks in advance.
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by [email protected] » Mon Jan 19, 2015 4:49 pm
Hi SDHoost,

First off, a 710/Q44 is a fantastic performance (it's right around the 90th percentile overall), so the idea that you would have to retest is questionable. While a Q44 might be a minor "drag" when applying to a Top5 School or specific Finance Programs, it's not really going to hamper your applications at any other Schools. As such, you have to define what Schools/Programs you're applying to. Even in those specific situations, if you were to be rejected, then it is unlikely that it would be because of your GMAT Quant Scaled Score.

As a minor aside, you mentioned that you took your GMAT 4 years ago. GMAT scores are valid for 5 years from the date that you took the Test. When you apply to Business School, will this score still be valid? My initial concerns notwithstanding, you might have no choice but to retest if your last GMAT score expires.

All of that having been said, if you are going to retest, then we need to know a few things before you commit to a tutor-based approach (and spend a lot of money in the process):

1) How strong are your current GMAT abilities? Since you took the GMAT four years ago, when was the last time that you took a FULL-LENGTH practice CAT? You can download 2 for free from www.mba.com. I suggest that you take one and report back with your scores. That data will help to define your strengths and weaknesses. A FULL CAT takes about 4 hours to complete, so make sure that you've set aside enough time to do the whole thing in one sitting.

2) How did you study last time? What resources did you use?
3) When are you planning to apply to School?
4) How much time do you think you can commit to this process on a weekly basis?

The GMAT has gone through some changes since you last took it (the big difference is the Issue Essay has been replaced by Integrated Reasoning), but much of the content and style remain the same. As such, it's the same predictable Test that it's always been. Whether you improve actually has more to do with YOUR willingness to adjust your tactics and "see" (and respond to) the GMAT in a different way than your potential time spent working with a tutor.

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by SDHoost » Mon Jan 19, 2015 5:27 pm
Rich,

Thanks for the quick response! I plan to apply this fall for the Fall of 2016. My actual test date was 02/11/11 and so I'll probably fall within my 5-year window as long as I'm able to stick to my intended application period. Having said that, the recommendation to retake the GMAT came from a family friend who works at Kellogg, and I don't want to take the advice for granted. I will definitely be retaking the test this spring. To your specific questions:

1) This is an excellent question, and I must admit I haven't yet taken a practice test. However, it dovetails nicely into the next question:

2) I really didn't prepare last time. I picked up a copy of the Princeton Review book and probably spent 8-10 hours reading through it and taking practice tests (I did also take one or two of the practice tests on mba.com) over the course of two weeks. While I can't say with absolute confidence that my starting score now will be 710, I expect that it's going to be pretty close, particularly in the verbal section, which has always come very quickly to me.

Three I've answered, and

4) I plan to commit 2-3 hours a week and my goal is to take the exam in April or May, giving me something in the neighborhood of 15-16 weeks to prepare. I admit I'm still a bit abstract on this one, partially because I haven't yet dug into what time commitment a tutoring program typically calls for.

I have no doubts that I can do better; however, as you mentioned in your reply, I'll be putting a lot of money into this preparation, and I want to make sure that if I'm spending that money, it will translate into the results I'm looking for.

I'll set aside some time for a full length practice test and report where my scores are afterwards. Thanks again for your time.
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by David@VeritasPrep » Mon Jan 19, 2015 6:25 pm
Your verbal score is fantastic and if you did not really study the first time around that score should still be great if you do a little practice. You might just be a natural on the verbal section.

As for Quant, you asked:
Is it a realistic expectation that 12-15 hours of tutoring & 2-3 months of self-study could improve my quant score by 6-10 points, given that I really didn't study much the first time around? Or will I probably need to invest in more hours?
You can only score up to a 51 at this point on Quant. So you can only go up from a 44 to a 51. However, I would say that given you strong SAT score, if you were to study on Quant you would certainly improve that score.

Given that a 44 is now a much lower percentile than it was when you took the exam 4 years ago, it is a good idea to retest so that you can show a stronger Quant and a more balanced score.

12 - 15 hours seems like a very reasonable starting point and my guess is that you would not need more tutoring than that. I am willing to bet that you will make it to your goal! If you have more time per week then you might be able to get there without any tutoring at all given that math is your strength. What tutoring will do for you is to cut down the amount of time needed since you will not have to "reinvent the wheel" so to speak.

How about this for a plan? Take the GMATPrep official practice test and see where you score now (You may get a 700 right now on the practice test) From there you will have more up-to-date information to share with your tutor.

Best of luck!

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by SDHoost » Thu Jan 22, 2015 10:23 am
Thanks for the feedback David. I will definitely share the result of my first practice test, which I hope to take Saturday.

One last question before I dive in: Can I use a distribution from a 529 account for a GMAT tutor? The research I've done says that you can, but obviously I'd prefer to know before I call my broker.
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by David@VeritasPrep » Thu Jan 22, 2015 5:55 pm
I am actually not sure about that. I think that your broker is going to be the expert to speak to for that!
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by SDHoost » Sat Jan 24, 2015 2:38 pm
OK, no worries- I will call him this week.

I've just finished my first practice exam. I wanted a true cold run, and so I did not do any verbal or quant studying ahead of time. I did complete a couple of practice Integrated Reasoning questions to familiarize myself with the concepts. The score was 700 (42V/43Q/8IR). Quant was a mess; I guessed way more often than I wanted to. Verbal, on the other hand, was very clearly based around grammar. Of the nine questions I missed, seven were for sentence correction.

With that information, I'll start including that aspect of the Verbal exam in my studies. Can one-on-one education provide a meaningful impact in my ability to recognize poor grammar, or would it make more sense to just practice a few hundred questions instead?
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by [email protected] » Sat Jan 24, 2015 5:02 pm
Hi SDHoost,

This CAT score is a good sign - it shows that you still have many (if not all) of the skills that you had the last time you took the GMAT.

It sounds like you've already reviewed the CAT, so I'm curious about what topics/areas you had trouble with in the Quant. With a Q42, you likely lost a bunch of points on DS, so some extra focus in the tactics/mechanics of dealing with DS is probably warranted.

Improving in SC will require a mix of content knowledge (grammar and idiom rules) and pattern-matching (knowing how the GMAT tests each rule, learning how to spot the "clues" in each sentence, using the answers to your advantage, etc.). If you don't know the content, then you're going to end up paying the tutor to teach you grammar (which you can learn in any number of ways, often for free). This is all meant to encourage you to do a bit more review into WHY you got those SCs wrong.

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by David@VeritasPrep » Sat Jan 24, 2015 5:05 pm
Just a little help in Sentence Correction can go a long way. Even a couple of hours of tutoring can point you in the right direction. More work is a great idea but you just need to know what you are trying to learn from that studying.

Sounds like most of your focus will still be on Quant?
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by VivianKerr » Sat Jan 24, 2015 9:42 pm
Just to chime in, I wouldn't just do a few hundred Sentence Correction questions until you can identify PRECISELY where your weak areas are in SC. Many of the students I work with come to me feeling frustrated after answering hundreds of questions without seeing a big score improvement, so I'm pretty passionately against the "just do a bajillion problems" approach. :-)

Here's the questions to ask: -- what concepts did you miss? WHY did you miss them? Is it a content-knowledge issue? A strategy issue? A pacing issue? What adjustments could you make to utilize your scratch paper more effectively?

To answer those Q's, I'd roll up your sleeves and complete an error log on the GMAT Prep you just took. And I'd lock in a solid SC strategy utilizing process of elimination BEFORE you dive into a lot more questions. GMAT students who score above 700 almost always nail almost every single SC. If you aren't scoring above 90% on SC problems when you work untimed, then definitely give SC some time and attention. Go back (or jump into) to the MGMAT Sentence Correction book to fill in any content gaps.

So my immediate suggestions:

1) SC error log
2) identify what your ideal strategy is
3) look at your scratch pad -- how could you be using it better for Verbal?

I know you want to focus on Quant, but I think you could definitely boost your overall score pretty quickly with some Verbal (and SC) effort.

Good luck! :-)
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by Matt@VeritasPrep » Sun Jan 25, 2015 9:40 pm
I think you're on the right track. It sounds like your analytical skills are excellent, so once you reacquaint yourself with some math fundamentals, your reasoning skills should carry the day. Anyone *starting* at 700 -- nice work!! -- is a great candidate to improve to 750.

As for the SC, it's probably just a matter of acquainting yourself with the differences between casual English and formal written English -- "the audience are on their feet" vs "the audience is on its feet", for instance -- and some of the GMAT's own arbitrary rules ("like" is not a synonym for "such as", "because" is preferable to "on account of", etc.) SC tends to be the section in which native speakers improve the most, so I like your chances.

Last thing: no matter who you choose for a tutor, try to do as much on your own as you can between sessions. The tutor should only be there to improve on your methods, clarify doubts, and share some test conventions; beyond that, you want to develop as much as you can on your own. You'll retain more, become more self-reliant, and get the most bang for your buck.
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by BestGMATEliza » Mon Jan 26, 2015 3:42 am
Congrats on the 710, that's a great place to be at! As Matt said, it is important to make sure you are doing lots of work outside of the tutoring to make the best of your time. Some tutors make study schedules for you and, like a course, it is important to follow it. When choosing a tutor it is also important to consider if they have a set schedule or if they tailor to your needs. Coming from scoring a 710 and aiming for a 750 puts you into a very different category than most other GMAT students, so it is important to find a tutor that will meet your specific needs and not just give the same lessons they give to everybody else.

Hope this helps and best of luck!!!!
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by SDHoost » Sat Jun 27, 2015 12:18 pm
I wanted to update you all (I hope that's OK!) and let you know that the advice given here as it relates to how I should study was extremely helpful. I actually decided against the tutoring and chose self-study instead. In the end the self-study proved to be enough as I was able to score 760 on the exam earlier today.

Thank you to everyone for the advice! I'm unbelievably happy to have improved so much and appreciate the guidance.
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by [email protected] » Sat Jun 27, 2015 2:42 pm
Hi SDHoost,

That's outstanding news! What were your Scaled Scores for the Quant and Verbal section this time around?

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