To CR experts, please read this: Making up facts in CR

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I have always thought and I believe it's written in all the books that
you cannot:

1) bring outside knowledge into your reasoning
2) make up facts that are not explicitly stated in the stimulus or
that could not be logically derived from the stimulus

In other words, you must take for the fact that what is stated in the
stimulus is true (even if black is said to be white). You cannot question premises presented in the stimulus.

(Note: I am not talking about specific situations when new facts can come in
the problem space from answer choices in certain question types such
as strengthen, weaken, resolve the paradox etc.)

Yet, there are two questions (both from the OG) that in my opinion either contradict this, or I must be missing something.
Theater Critic: The play La Finestrina, now at Central Theater, was written in Italy in the eighteenth century. The director claims that this production is as similar to the original production as is possible in a modern theater. Although the actor who plays Harlequin the clown gives a performance very reminiscent of the twentieth-century American comedian Groucho Marx, Marx's comic style was very much within the comic acting tradition that had begun in sixteenth-century Italy.

The considerations given best serve as part of an argument that

(A) modern audiences would find it hard to tolerate certain characteristics of a historically accurate performance of an eighteenth-century play
(B) Groucho Marx once performed the part of the character Harlequin in La Finestrina
(C) in the United States the training of actors in the twentieth century is based on principles that do not differ radically from those that underlay the training of actors in eighteenth-century Italy
(D) the performance of the actor who plays Harlequin in La Finestrina does not serve as evidence against the director's claim
(E) the director of La Finestrina must have advised the actor who plays Harlequin to model his performance on comic performances of Groucho Marx

The OA is [spoiler](D)[/spoiler].

https://www.beatthegmat.com/what-is-mean ... tml#447423


Here are my objections:

a) How do you know that 16th century comic style was still available in the 18 century? For all we know, it could have been quite the opposite. Who knows?

b) Assuming that the 16th century comic style was available in the 18th century, how can we extrapolate from it to claim that this was an accurate characteristic of the comic style that was actually used in the 18th century?

IMO, for (D) to be a logical answer (i.e., answer that would flow from the stimulus), I would have to know that the 16th century style was not only available in the 18th century, but actually practiced. Otherwise, if that style was available but absolutely not used, how can we claim that the production was close to the original? If it were close to the original, it would use the comic style that had been actually used in the 18th century.

Here's the second problem:
In the past, most children who went sledding in the winter snow in Verland used wooden sleds with runners and steering bars. Ten years ago, smooth plastic sleds became popular; they go faster than wooden sleds but are harder to steer and slow. The concern that plastic sleds are more dangerous is clearly borne out by the fact that the number of children injured while sledding was much higher last winter than it was ten years ago.

Which of the following, if true in Verland, most seriously undermines the force of the evidence cited?

A. A few children still use traditional wooden sleds.
B. Very few children wear any kind of protective gear, such as helmets, while sledding.
C. Plastic sleds can be used in a much wider variety of snow conditions than wooden sleds can.
D. Most sledding injuries occur when a sled collides with a tree, a rock, or another sled.
E. Because the traditional wooden sled can carry more than one rider, an accident involving a wooden sled can result in several children being injured.

The OA is C.

https://www.beatthegmat.com/plastic-sleds-t30275.html
I thought that this answer choice cannot be correct because I thought that since plastic sleds can be used in much wider variety of snow conditions, they are potentially more dangerous than wooden sleds. For example, if plastic sleds can be used on icy snow and wooden cannot, they must be more dangerous.

Here's what Ron said to my objection:
You just made up the idea of "more dangerous conditions" at random. you can't just make up facts at random and then use them in an argument!
you are assuming (for no particular reason) that the additional varieties of snow are more dangerous; you could just as well assume that they are less dangerous.
So what I don't understand is that how come that in the first problem we are not making facts by assuming that the style that had begun in the 16th century was still used in the 18th century, and in the second example I am making facts by assuming that wider variety of snow conditions are more dangerous?

I would be very grateful if you could point to a logical mistake in my reasoning, and not to discuss how we can arrive at the correct answer in those questions and why other answer choices are wrong.

I would really appreciate if all our CR experts can weigh in with their insight.

Thanks in advance.
Last edited by nonameee on Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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by MBACenter » Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:34 am
nonameee wrote:I have always thought and I believe it's written in all the books that
you cannot:

1) bring outside knowledge into your reasoning
2) make up facts that are not explicitly stated in the stimulus or
that could not be logically derived from the stimulus

In other words, you must take for the fact that what is stated in the
stimulus is true (even if black is said to be white). You cannot question premises presented in the stimulus.

(Note: I am not talking about specific situations when new facts can come in
the problem space from answer choices in certain question types such
as strengthen, weaken, resolve the paradox etc.)

Yet, there are two questions (both from the OG) that in my opinion either contradict this, or I must be missing something.
Theater Critic: The play La Finestrina, now at Central Theater, was written in Italy in the eighteenth century. The director claims that this production is as similar to the original production as is possible in a modern theater. Although the actor who plays Harlequin the clown gives a performance very reminiscent of the twentieth-century American comedian Groucho Marx, Marx's comic style was very much within the comic acting tradition that had begun in sixteenth-century Italy.

The considerations given best serve as part of an argument that

(A) modern audiences would find it hard to tolerate certain characteristics of a historically accurate performance of an eighteenth-century play
(B) Groucho Marx once performed the part of the character Harlequin in La Finestrina
(C) in the United States the training of actors in the twentieth century is based on principles that do not differ radically from those that underlay the training of actors in eighteenth-century Italy
(D) the performance of the actor who plays Harlequin in La Finestrina does not serve as evidence against the director's claim
(E) the director of La Finestrina must have advised the actor who plays Harlequin to model his performance on comic performances of Groucho Marx

The OA is (D).

https://www.beatthegmat.com/what-is-mean ... tml#447423


Here are my objections:

a) How do you know that 16th century comic style was still available in the 18 century? For all we know, it could have been quite the opposite. Who knows?

b) Assuming that the 16th century comic style was available in the 18th century, how can we extrapolate from it to claim that this was an accurate characteristic of the comic style that was actually used in the 18th century?

IMO, for (D) to be a logical answer (i.e., answer that would flow from the stimulus), I would have to know that the 16th century style was not only available in the 18th century, but actually practiced. Otherwise, if that style was available but absolutely not used, how can we claim that the production was close to the original? If it were close to the original, it would use the comic style that had been actually used in the 18th century.
Actually, here are the facts:

- The director claims the play is performed closely to the 18th-century style.
- The lead actor gives a performance remniscient of a 20th-century performer.
- Said 20th-century performer is very close to the 16th-century style.

The logical conclusion we can deduce is that the lead actor in the play in question is giving a performance remniscient of 16th-century style.

Now, the fact that it is remniscient of 16th-century style does not mean that it is not ALSO close to 18th-century style. On the face of it, however, it does not appear to be evidence IN FAVOR of the play in question being 18th-century style. That is what D says. Pay attention to the negations, and pay attenton to the "best serve as part of an argument." You are not deducing a conclusion but making an observation about the appearance of the evidence. This is a bit more conjectural than a valid deduction.

The idea is to see how attentive is your critical eye to pause and take notice at fishy-sounding evidence. After all, deduction is all well and good, but humans don't live in a syllogistically predictable world! We need to make real decisions and do actual things.
Here's the second problem:
In the past, most children who went sledding in the winter snow in Verland used wooden sleds with runners and steering bars. Ten years ago, smooth plastic sleds became popular; they go faster than wooden sleds but are harder to steer and slow. The concern that plastic sleds are more dangerous is clearly borne out by the fact that the number of children injured while sledding was much higher last winter than it was ten years ago.

Which of the following, if true in Verland, most seriously undermines the force of the evidence cited?

A. A few children still use traditional wooden sleds.
B. Very few children wear any kind of protective gear, such as helmets, while sledding.
C. Plastic sleds can be used in a much wider variety of snow conditions than wooden sleds can.
D. Most sledding injuries occur when a sled collides with a tree, a rock, or another sled.
E. Because the traditional wooden sled can carry more than one rider, an accident involving a wooden sled can result in several children being injured.

The OA is C.

https://www.beatthegmat.com/plastic-sleds-t30275.html
I thought that this answer choice cannot be correct because I thought that since plastic sleds can be used in much wider variety of snow conditions, they are potentially more dangerous than wooden sleds. For example, if plastic sleds can be used on icy snow and wooden cannot, they must be more dangerous.

Here's what Ron said to my objection:
You just made up the idea of "more dangerous conditions" at random. you can't just make up facts at random and then use them in an argument!
you are assuming (for no particular reason) that the additional varieties of snow are more dangerous; you could just as well assume that they are less dangerous.
So what I don't understand is that how come that in the first problem we are not making facts by assuming that the style that had begun in the 16th century was still used in the 18th century, and in the second example I am making facts by assuming that wider variety of snow conditions are more dangerous?

I would be very grateful if you could point to a logical mistake in my reasoning, and not to discuss how we can arrive at the correct answer in those questions and why other answer choices are wrong.

I would really appreciate if all our CR experts can weigh in with their insight.

Thanks in advance.
If plastic sleds can be used in a wider variety of conditions than wooden sleds, then the accidents were quite possibly a function of the more dangerous circumstances under which they are used. It would NOT be a function of the quality of the sled.

Here is an analogy. I have light skin and you have darker skin. I put on SPF 45 sunblock and go to Equatorial Guinea, where I blister under the nasty UV rays. You put on SPF 8 sunblock and chill out up in Norway. You don't burn. Did the SPF 45 sunblock cause my burn? Obviously not! My burns were caused by the more dangerous conditions in which I put myself.

Replace "SPF 45" with "plastic sled," "Equitorial Guinea" with "wide variety of sledding conditions," "SPF 8 sunblock" with "wooden sled" and "chill out up in Norway" with "restricted variety of sledding conditions." Now does it make a little more sense?

Hope this helps!
Last edited by MBACenter on Wed Feb 01, 2012 4:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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by GMATGuruNY » Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:30 am
Virtually every strengthen/weaken CR makes the same assumption: that X is connected to Y.
The correct answer need not PROVE that the conclusion is true; it must only strengthen or weaken the LINK that the argument trying to establish.
Theater Critic: The play La Finestrina, now at Central Theater, was written in Italy in the eighteenth century. The director claims that this production is as similar to the original production as is possible in a modern theater. Although the actor who plays Harlequin the clown gives a performance very reminiscent of the twentieth-century American comedian Groucho Marx, Marx's comic style was very much within the comic acting tradition that had begun in sixteenth-century Italy.
Here, the director links the MODERN production of La Finestrina to the ORIGINAL production in the 18th century.

He establishes this LINK by offering the following evidence:
The actor who plays Harlequin the clown gives a performance very reminiscent of the twentieth-century American comedian Groucho Marx -- a comic style that WAS very much within the comic acting tradition that HAD BEGUN in sixteenth-century Italy.
Note the VERBS: a tradition that HAD BEGUN in the 16th century and WAS still in use in the 20th century. These verbs imply that the comic tradition remained just that -- a TRADITION -- during the intervening years.

Since these intervening years include the 18th century -- the time of the original production of La Finestrina -- the performance of the actor strengthens the LINK between the MODERN production and the ORIGINAL production.
Thus, the actor's performance could not serve as evidence AGAINST the director's claim that the two productions are similar.
This is why D is correct.
In the past, most children who went sledding in the winter snow in Verland used wooden sleds with runners and steering bars. Ten years ago, smooth plastic sleds became popular; they go faster than wooden sleds but are harder to steer and slow. The concern that plastic sleds are more dangerous is clearly borne out by the fact that the number of children injured while sledding was much higher last winter than it was ten years ago.
Here, the passage links two aspects of the plastic sleds -- that they go FASTER and are HARDER TO STEER AND SLOW -- to the increase in the NUMBER OF ACCIDENTS.
The correct answer must break the LINK: it must show that the speed and the steering issues are NOT connected to the increase in the number of accidents.
The easiest way to break the link is to suggest ANOTHER CAUSE: that SOMETHING ELSE is responsible for the increase in the number of accidents.

Answer choice C does just that: Plastic sleds can be used in a much wider variety of snow conditions than wooden sleds can. This answer choice links the WIDER VARIETY OF SNOW CONDITIONS to the INCREASE in the number of accidents -- thereby breaking the link between the SLEDS themselves and the number of accidents.

Notice that the OA does not PROVE that the sleds are not more dangerous; it simply breaks the LINK between the speed/steering and the number of accidents.

My advice is to focus on the LINK: determine what ideas are being connected. Then look for an answer that strengthens or weakens that LINK.
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by nonameee » Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:53 am
Nicholas and Mitch, thank you both. Your answers really helped. Everything is clear now in regard to those two problems.

Could you please explain two more questions?

1) What's the best way to avoid the mistake I made in my reasoning? IMO, in both problems I made the same mistake of (a) not understanding the logic behind correct answer and (b) of bringing some strange reasoning/facts into my thought process.

2) How should I know whether I'm making up facts in my reasoning?

Again, thank you very much.

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by MBACenter » Wed Feb 01, 2012 4:43 am
nonameee wrote:Nicholas and Mitch, thank you both. Your answers really helped. Everything is clear now in regard to those two problems.

Could you please explain two more questions?

1) What's the best way to avoid the mistake I made in my reasoning? IMO, in both problems I made the same mistake of (a) not understanding the logic behind correct answer and (b) of bringing some strange reasoning/facts into my thought process.
No problem. :) I think you pretty well stated your problem below, so I will address that more directly...
2) How should I know whether I'm making up facts in my reasoning?

Again, thank you very much.
First of all, when it comes to deductive-type questions (Draw a Conclusion/Make an Inference, Find the Assumption), the only things you can assume are common knowledge. The Earth is round, the sky is blue, clouds are white. The only value judgments you can assume are elementary ones: fire bad, tree pretty; we want to be rich, not poor (all things being equal); we want to be alive, not dead; we want to be healthy, not sick; we want to be morally sound, not have problems sleeping at night...

(Those four criteria obviously do not respectively apply to monks, suicidal depressives, masochists and mafiosi, but it is fairly safe to say that those categories of persons do not take the GMAT and we don't need to worry about them objecting. ;) )

When it comes to the more scientific-type questions (Strengthen, Weaken, Paradox, Evaluate), you have a little more leeway, but it does not really count for anything. However, you will probably need to confirm any non-stated "suspicions" when you point out how an argument could be strengthened or weakened.

The second question you showed us is tricky to classify, because it is technically a more analysis-driven question (this includes the Dialogue, BOLDFACE, Resolve, Parallel and Example types) but it does play off your ability to see what sort of connections are made in the argument (as Mitch hinted before me).

Here, you can imagine what a reasonable person might be inclined to think without specifically hearing evidence to the contrary (for example, that an 18th-century theater would be likely perform a play in a different manner from that of a 16th-century theater). But you have limits; you can't let your imagination get out of control and let things go too far (for example, supposing that a 16th-century play could only be about religion and a 20th-century play could only be about licentiousness).

Also, keep in mind that you need to be detached. You are describing what the author, a reasonable person, would think, and not making deductions yourself.

Think of it this way: you may describe your INTERLOCUTOR's non-deductive arguments or unstated assumptions, but you cannot make any YOURSELF, directly.
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by nonameee » Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:45 am
Nicholas, thanks a lot for your reply.

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by nonameee » Sat Feb 11, 2012 12:39 pm
My advice is to focus on the LINK: determine what ideas are being connected. Then look for an answer that strengthens or weakens that LINK.

Mitch, in the post above, you suggested that I look for a link in CR questions. By this link do you mean any link between X and Y (where X is some premise and Y is a conclusion), or do you mean only a link in cause-effect scenarios? Could you please clarify?

I've actually decided to read a couple of your posts in the CR section, and I've found out that you use this concept quite a lot. Could please elaborate on it in a greater detail. I think I got the drift. But still it'd be very useful.

Thanks a lot.

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by GMATGuruNY » Sun Feb 12, 2012 5:26 am
nonameee wrote:
My advice is to focus on the LINK: determine what ideas are being connected. Then look for an answer that strengthens or weakens that LINK.

Mitch, in the post above, you suggested that I look for a link in CR questions. By this link do you mean any link between X and Y (where X is some premise and Y is a conclusion), or do you mean only a link in cause-effect scenarios? Could you please clarify?

I've actually decided to read a couple of your posts in the CR section, and I've found out that you use this concept quite a lot. Could please elaborate on it in a greater detail. I think I got the drift. But still it'd be very useful.

Thanks a lot.
Virtually every strengthen/weaken/assumption CR exhibits the following pattern:
The PREMISE is about X.
The CONCLUSION is about Y.
The ASSUMPTION is that there is a LINK between X and Y.

This assumed link is often CAUSAL in nature -- that X caused Y -- but it can take on many forms.

To illustrate:
The premise X is about a change in PERCENTAGE.
The conclusion Y is about a change in the actual NUMBER.
The assumption is that there is a link between the PERCENTAGE and the NUMBER: that a change in PERCENTAGE implies a change in the actual NUMBER.

With most CRs, the trick is to understand what ideas are being linked and HOW they're being linked.
Then look for an answer choice that strengthens/weakens/identifies that link.
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by nonameee » Sun Feb 12, 2012 8:07 am
Thank you very much.

A few more question if you don't mind:
but it can take on many forms
What other forms do you know?

Have you written a post with summarized techniques for various question types?

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by GMATGuruNY » Tue Feb 14, 2012 11:04 am
nonameee wrote:Thank you very much.

A few more question if you don't mind:
but it can take on many forms
What other forms do you know?

Have you written a post with summarized techniques for various question types?
I listed a few common assumptions here:

https://www.beatthegmat.com/cr-t61176.html
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by karthikgmat » Fri Feb 24, 2012 12:43 am
Tough one ... Took time to arrive at D. But I find hard to read expert's replies .. My reason is

Director is claiming its similar to a new theater production(possible).

Actor Harlequin's performance is similar to 20th century comdeian ..

Marx's style was seen in 16th italian comic.

So,

We can say actor's performance is not an enough evidence to say that director's claim is genuine..