GNP
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paddle_sweep
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Testluv
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There can be other ways that the economy will collapse.paddle_sweep wrote:What's wrong with 'C'?
We know that:
IF Russia avoids economic collapse, THEN 40% is possible.
We can't just switch these two around. That is, "IF A, THEN B", does not imply "IF B, THEN A".
If you are in Pune then you are in India; but that does not mean that if you are in India that you are in Pune.
You need gas to drive a car. So, if the car is running, we know there is gas in it. But if there is gas in the tank, we don't know for sure that the car is running (because there are other things you need to run the car--transmission, steering wheel, etc).
IF A then B does imply that "if No B, then No A" (this is called the contrapositive). If you are not in India, then you are definitely not in Pune. Likewise, if there is NO gas in the tank, then we definitely can't run the car.
In other words, choice C confuses suff/nec.
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paddle_sweep
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Thanks for the explanation. Got it now.Testluv wrote:There can be other ways that the economy will collapse.paddle_sweep wrote:What's wrong with 'C'?
We know that:
IF Russia avoids economic collapse, THEN 40% is possible.
We can't just switch these two around. That is, "IF A, THEN B", does not imply "IF B, THEN A".
If you are in Pune then you are in India; but that does not mean that if you are in India that you are in Pune.
You need gas to drive a car. So, if the car is running, we know there is gas in it. But if there is gas in the tank, we don't know for sure that the car is running (because there are other things you need to run the car--transmission, steering wheel, etc).
IF A then B does imply that "if No B, then No A" (this is called the contrapositive). If you are not in India, then you are definitely not in Pune. Likewise, if there is NO gas in the tank, then we definitely can't run the car.
In other words, choice C confuses suff/nec.
Dear tpr-beckytpr-becky wrote:I disagree becuase answer choice D includes "and a 60 percent increase is probable" no where in the sentence does it talk about a 60%
the right asnwer is B because if russia doesn't reach 20% it WILL collapse and if it reaches 20% then 40% is possible. therefore if 40% is impossible then they must not have reached the 20% which means the economy will collapse.
I'm still confusing about your explanation.
With my understanding, we should not assume Bïƒ A since the passage gives Aïƒ B.
In this case, "if the 20% threshold is reached, then a 40% increase in GNP is achievable." Which shows 40% is DOABLE if we can reached 20%, but that does NOT means if 40% is impossible then 20% must not be reached.(isn't it will be the assumption that we make by our own opinion??) It just like the example you gave for the Puneïƒ India
thanks
Testluv wrote:sir,deepesh.gupta wrote:If Russia avoids economic collapse, then it increases GNP by 20%.
(avoid ec. coll.----> increase GNP 20%)
The second sentence yields:
if it increases GNP by 20%, then 40% is possibe.
(increase GNP 20%----> 40% possible)
Note that the right hand side of the first conditional statement is also the left-hand side of the second. Thus:
if Russia avoids economic collapse, then 40% is possible,
whose contrapositive is:
if 40% is NOT possible (ie, IS impossible), then Russia will NOT avoid economic collapse (ie, WILL collapse).
so you mean A-->B, B-->C then A-->C this part I do understand
but how can NOT C-->NOT A???
that is like saying, if floor is weet then it rained, if not rained then floor is not weet.
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Testluv
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Yes sir, that's exactly correct: "If A, then C" also means "If NOT C, then NOT A."sir,
so you mean A-->B, B-->C then A-->C this part I do understand
but how can NOT C-->NOT A???
that is like saying, if floor is weet then it rained, if not rained then floor is not weet.
If it rains it gets wet outside. Therefore, if it is NOT wet outside, then it has NOT rained.
If you are in Tokyo, then you are in Japan. Therefore, if you are NOT in Japan, then you are NOT in Tokyo.
If the car is running, then there is gas in the tank. Therefore, if there is NOT gas in the tank, then the car is NOT running.
If the people are at home, then the lights are on. Therefore, if the lights are NOT on, then the people are NOT home.
If A, then B. Therefore, if NOT B, then NOT A. (These are a pair of contraposing conditional statements; they are different ways of saying the same thing).
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Isn't there a flaw for "If the people are at home, then the lights are on. Therefore, if the lights are NOT on, then the people are NOT home." Due to there can be people sleeping at home so the light is not on.Testluv wrote:Yes sir, that's exactly correct: "If A, then C" also means "If NOT C, then NOT A."sir,
so you mean A-->B, B-->C then A-->C this part I do understand
but how can NOT C-->NOT A???
that is like saying, if floor is weet then it rained, if not rained then floor is not weet.
If it rains it gets wet outside. Therefore, if it is NOT wet outside, then it has NOT rained.
If you are in Tokyo, then you are in Japan. Therefore, if you are NOT in Japan, then you are NOT in Tokyo.
If the car is running, then there is gas in the tank. Therefore, if there is NOT gas in the tank, then the car is NOT running.
If the people are at home, then the lights are on. Therefore, if the lights are NOT on, then the people are NOT home.
If A, then B. Therefore, if NOT B, then NOT A. (These are a pair of contraposing conditional statements; they are different ways of saying the same thing).
Second, how do I defined what A or B should be? I mean, in the "rain & wet" example. Don't they have different outcomes if I set "rain as A and wet as B" or "rain as B and wet as A
Let me put in this way,
A->B wet->rain; Not B->Not A Not rain->Not wet (but the floor still could be wet due to other reason, such as car wash)
A->B rain->wet; Not B->Not A Not wet->Not rain (make sense)
Especially, when we refer back to the question with this formula.
If we can reach 20% increase then 40% increase is doable, and answer (B) says "if 40% increase is impossible, then 20% will not be reach; therefore EC will collapse." However, when I use my own world to explain in the following way: If I can make $20, then I can possibly make $40 as well. But if I can NOT make $40 doesn't mean that I can NOT make $20.
Again, thank you very much for your time
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Testluv
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Of course, yes in real life. But if we take the first sentence as true (just as you have to treat all stated evidence as true in GMAT CR), then the second sentence is also true.Isn't there a flaw for "If the people are at home, then the lights are on. Therefore, if the lights are NOT on, then the people are NOT home." Due to there can be people sleeping at home so the light is not on.
It has to do with which condition guarantees (is sufficient for) the other, and which is necessary (required for) the other...for this point, you can read my previous posts in this thread.Second, how do I defined what A or B should be? I mean, in the "rain & wet" example. Don't they have different outcomes if I set "rain as A and wet as B" or "rain as B and wet as A
Does rain guarantee wetness? Yes. Does wetness guarantee that it has rained? No. So, we can say if rain, then wet, but not the other way around.
Anyways, we are dealing here with formal logic that is the domain of the LSAT not the GMAT.
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Testluv
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So, we don't want to bring in our own assumptions. On GMAT CR, we always "give" the author her evidence even if we find it debatable. For example, if the author's evidence is "cats bark" we don't argue with that. Instead, we do what we always to do figure out the argument's assumption. We ask:However, when I use my own world to explain in the following way: If I can make $20, then I can possibly make $40 as well. But if I can NOT make $40 doesn't mean that I can NOT make $20.
"Why is the author's evidence--however debatable it is--not establish the author's conclusion?"
Note that this was an inference question, so we are treating the entire passage (not just the evidence) as true, and not searching for any assumptions. Essentiallly, in an inference question the passage is your entire universe, and everything in that universe must be true.
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@alanalan7858 wrote:Cool~~
I have clearly understand now.
Thank you so much to be so patient.
Really appreciate^^
Testluv is really cool & very down-to -earth when it comes to explaining concepts..!!
Awesome Deepak!!












