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New York City

by Soumita Ghosh » Thu Feb 28, 2013 8:32 pm
A New York City ordinance of 1897 regulated the use of bicycles, mandated a maximum speed of eight miles an hour, required of cyclists to keep feet on pedals and hands on handlebars at all times, and it granted pedestrians right-of-way.

A. regulated the use of bicycles, mandated a maximum speed of eight miles an
hour, required of cyclists to keep feet on pedals and hands on handlebars at all
times, and it granted.

B. regulated the use of bicycles, mandated a maximum speed of eight miles an
hour, required cyclists to keep feet on pedals and hands on handlebars at all
times, granting.

C. regulating the use of bicycles mandated a maximum speed of eight miles an
hour, required cyclists that they keep feet on pedals and hands on handlebars
at all times, and it granted.

D. regulating the use of bicycles, mandating a maximum speed of eight miles an
hour, requiring of cyclists that they keep feet on pedals and hands on
handlebars at all times, and granted.

E. regulating the use of bicycles mandated a maximum speed of eight miles an
hour, required cyclists to keep feet on pedals and hands on handlebars at all
times, and granted.

OA E

Don't you people think that in the choice E there must be comma before mandated??Otherwise it is correct. As comma is missing before mandated in choice E that is I chose A
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by aditya8062 » Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:49 pm
no its fine without a comma
E A New York City ordinance of 1897 regulating the use of bicycles mandated a maximum speed of eight miles an hour, required cyclists to keep feet on pedals and hands on handlebars at all
times, and granted.

the "regulating the use ....." is the ing modifier modifying the ordinance

in fact if u want to put the comma before mandated then u need to put one more comma before regulating :

E A New York City ordinance of 1897, regulating the use of bicycles, mandated a maximum speed of eight miles an hour, required cyclists to keep feet on pedals and hands on handlebars at all
times, and granted.
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by Kasia@EconomistGMAT » Fri Mar 01, 2013 7:19 am
If you put a comma before "mandated" in choice E, you would separate the subject from the verb with a comma - which clearly is a bad idea.
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by aditya8062 » Fri Mar 01, 2013 7:27 am
To kasia
but E like this : A New York City ordinance of 1897, regulating the use of bicycles, mandated a maximum speed of eight miles an hour, required cyclists to keep feet on pedals and hands on handlebars at all times, and granted pedestrians right-of-way.
will it be correct ?
thanks and regards
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by sana.noor » Fri Mar 01, 2013 9:38 am
To aditya
regulating here isnt a verb but actually modifying new york ordinance.
A New York City ordinance (its a subject) of 1897 regulating the use of bicycles (modifier) and what actually this subject do? it
--->mandated a maximum speed of eight miles an
hour,
--->required cyclists to keep feet on pedals and hands on handlebars at all
times, and
---->granted pedestrians right-of-way.
putting a comma before mandate and regulating will be a bad idea because without comma it gives a complete thought that New york city ordinance which regulates the use of bicycle and rest of he sentence provide information that how it regulates.
Last edited by sana.noor on Fri Mar 01, 2013 9:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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by aditya8062 » Fri Mar 01, 2013 9:50 am
sana said : To aditya
regulating here isnt a verb but a actually modifying new york ordinance.
i never said "regulating" is a verb . all i said was its an -ing modifier
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by Kasia@EconomistGMAT » Fri Mar 01, 2013 11:23 am
aditya8062 wrote:To kasia
but E like this : A New York City ordinance of 1897, regulating the use of bicycles, mandated a maximum speed of eight miles an hour, required cyclists to keep feet on pedals and hands on handlebars at all times, and granted pedestrians right-of-way.
will it be correct ?
thanks and regards
aditya
Yes, that would also be correct.
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by sana.noor » Fri Mar 01, 2013 9:15 pm
But Kasia if we seperate with comma's then it doesnt give a complete notion that how it regulates the use of bycycles?
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by vishalpathak » Mon Nov 25, 2013 6:21 am
Shouldn't comma + and seperate 2 independent clauses?

In E, "granted pedestrians right-of-way" is not an independent clause.

Somebody please help

Regards,
Vishal
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by ilyana » Mon Nov 25, 2013 10:54 am
Hello!

Yes, you are right, "granted pedestrians right-of-way" is not an independent clause. It is the last element of the list:

[Ordinance] mandated, required(,) and granted.

Here is an excerpt from https://grammar.ccc.commnet.edu/grammar/conjunctions.htm

"A comma is also correct when and is used to attach the last item of a serial list, although many writers (especially in newspapers) will omit that final comma:
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by AbhiS » Wed Nov 27, 2013 9:16 am
Hi Soumita,

This sentence (your version) as you have posted -
A New York City ordinance of 1897, regulating the use of bicycles, mandated a maximum speed of eight miles an hour, required cyclists to keep feet on pedals and hands on handlebars at all times, and granted pedestrians right-of-way


What i understand of and ING modifier is this:
If the ING modifier is after a comma, it acts like an adverbial modifier and modify the preceding verb closet to it. Since - A New York City ordinance of 1897 has no verb it would be wrong

If the ING modifier is not separated by a comma, it can act as an adjective modifier modifying the whole noun clause or noun preceding it. In correct version (E) it will be modifying ordinance.

I hope this helps.

Thanks
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by ilyana » Thu Nov 28, 2013 2:35 am
AbhiS wrote:What i understand of and ING modifier is this:
If the ING modifier is after a comma, it acts like an adverbial modifier and modify the preceding verb closet to it. Since - A New York City ordinance of 1897 has no verb it would be wrong
Hello, AbhiS!

I'm not sure this rule exists. Where did you read about it?

George, watching an old comedy, drifted in and out of sleep. --> no verb precedes the ING-modifier. On the contrary, the verb comes after it. The ING-modifier modifies the whole clause (including the verb in it) because it is set off by commas.

I'm pretty sure the structure of the sentence above is a valid one and would be correct on the GMAT.
AbhiS wrote: If the ING modifier is not separated by a comma, it can act as an adjective modifier modifying the whole noun clause or noun preceding it. In correct version (E) it will be modifying ordinance.
I changed the bold type here.
I think you meant "noun phrase" here, not "noun clause".



And a few words about ING-forms in general:

don't confuse a marginal preposition (https://www.ucl.ac.uk/internet-grammar/p ... rginal.htm) with a participle modifier.

In the problem at hand "regulating" is a participle (noun or adverbial modifier --> depending on commas).

There are several ways to build solid walls using just mud or clay. (OG13, SC problem 13, non-underlined part) --> here it is a marginal preposition, and all the rules about ING-modifiers doesn't apply to it.
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by AbhiS » Sat Nov 30, 2013 2:11 pm
ilyana wrote:
AbhiS wrote:What i understand of and ING modifier is this:
If the ING modifier is after a comma, it acts like an adverbial modifier and modify the preceding verb closet to it. Since - A New York City ordinance of 1897 has no verb it would be wrong
Hello, AbhiS!

I'm not sure this rule exists. Where did you read about it?

George, watching an old comedy, drifted in and out of sleep. --> no verb precedes the ING-modifier. On the contrary, the verb comes after it. The ING-modifier modifies the whole clause (including the verb in it) because it is set off by commas.

I'm pretty sure the structure of the sentence above is a valid one and would be correct on the GMAT.
I stand corrected, I guess i choose the wrong word. What i meant was the verb closest to it (generally).

Yes you are 100% correct.


ilyana wrote:
AbhiS wrote: If the ING modifier is not separated by a comma, it can act as an adjective modifier modifying the whole noun clause or noun preceding it. In correct version (E) it will be modifying ordinance.
I changed the bold type here.
I think you meant "noun phrase" here, not "noun clause".
Seems like I really am having a bad day :). Yes its a noun phrase.

Something got over me that day. I am glad that you took the pain to read the post and correct me as well as all the fellow students whom i have misguided.

My bad.


ilyana wrote: And a few words about ING-forms in general:

don't confuse a marginal preposition (https://www.ucl.ac.uk/internet-grammar/p ... rginal.htm) with a participle modifier.

In the problem at hand "regulating" is a participle (noun or adverbial modifier --> depending on commas).

There are several ways to build solid walls using just mud or clay. (OG13, SC problem 13, non-underlined part) --> here it is a marginal preposition, and all the rules about ING-modifiers doesn't apply to it.
What i fail to understand on this part are as follows:

1) Marginal Preposition - The definition was not adequate for me to understand this term and also do i need to really know this term.

This is what i researched:

This is what i understand of prepositions - Preposition is a word or group of words that is used with a noun, pronoun, or noun phrase to show direction, location, or time, or to introduce an object. ( If this definition of preposition is correct then why introduce a new term)

Marginal Prepositions are a number of prepositions that have affinities with other word classes. In particular, Marginal prepositions act like prepositions but derive from other word classes, primarily verb forms, such as concerning, considering, excluding, given, granted, pending (Obviously there are few non-verbal marginal modifiers too) - Yet meaning the same as Prepositions, just derived from verbs primarily.

Now if the above definition is correct, than obviously Marginal prepositions are not adverbial modifiers- as Adjectives modify or describe nouns. Adverbs modify or describe adjectives, verbs, or other adverbs but not noun.

2) The ''using'' is it playing an adverbial modifier or a adjective modifier.
What i understand after reading the sentence it is modifying ''wall'' (So i am guessing its an adjective modifiers)

3) Can Marginal Preposition can act as an adverbial modifier and a adjective modifier, and what are its restrictions.

4) How can one differentiate a Marginal Preposition from a participle ING.

Thanks in advance.
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by ilyana » Sun Dec 01, 2013 1:04 am
ilyana wrote: George, watching an old comedy, drifted in and out of sleep. --> no verb precedes the ING-modifier. On the contrary, the verb comes after it. The ING-modifier modifies the whole clause (including the verb in it) because it is set off by commas.

I'm pretty sure the structure of the sentence above is a valid one and would be correct on the GMAT.
What I was trying to say is that if "regulationg the use of bicycles" were set off by commas, then the sentence would probably still be correct. However, ING-modifier would modify the whole sentence rather than just "ordinance", so the meaning would change a little.

Of course, I can't be 100% sure of this, because I'm not a test-maker. It's just an opinion.

And, of course, these claims are kind of pointless, because the best strategy in preparation for the GMAT is to deal with what the problem actually offers, and not to make up our own sentences. Though, it's tempting...


I'll answer your questions about marginal prepositions in the next post.
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by ilyana » Sun Dec 01, 2013 2:31 am
AbhiS wrote: What i fail to understand on this part are as follows:

1) Marginal Preposition - The definition was not adequate for me to understand this term and also do i need to really know this term.

This is what i researched:

This is what i understand of prepositions - Preposition is a word or group of words that is used with a noun, pronoun, or noun phrase to show direction, location, or time, or to introduce an object. ( If this definition of preposition is correct then why introduce a new term)

Marginal Prepositions are a number of prepositions that have affinities with other word classes. In particular, Marginal prepositions act like prepositions but derive from other word classes, primarily verb forms, such as concerning, considering, excluding, given, granted, pending (Obviously there are few non-verbal marginal modifiers too) - Yet meaning the same as Prepositions, just derived from verbs primarily.

Now if the above definition is correct, than obviously Marginal prepositions are not adverbial modifiers- as Adjectives modify or describe nouns. Adverbs modify or describe adjectives, verbs, or other adverbs but not noun.

2) The ''using'' is it playing an adverbial modifier or a adjective modifier.
What i understand after reading the sentence it is modifying ''wall'' (So i am guessing its an adjective modifiers)

3) Can Marginal Preposition can act as an adverbial modifier and a adjective modifier, and what are its restrictions.

4) How can one differentiate a Marginal Preposition from a participle ING.

Thanks in advance.
1) You are right. You don't have to know the exact term. But it might be useful to realize that some "present participles" (using, following, including) are not really Present Participles. They just look like Present Participles, but in fact they are prepositions, so the rules for Present Participle modifiers don't apply to them.

Now, what do we know about prepositions or, more precisely, about prepositional modifiers? Prepositional modifiers may act as ADJECTiVES or ADVERBS:

A girl with a red purse was busily patrolling the streets. -- "With a red purse" here plays role of an adjective (noun modifier).
A girl laughed with gusto. -- "With gusto" here is an adverbial modifier and modifies the verb (how she laughed).

Marginal prepositions act the same way (because they are prepositions):

The teacher gathered the whole class, including John, in the classroom. -- "Including John" is a noun modifier modifying "class".
The teacher returned to his home town following his retirement. -- You can substitute "following" for "after" here and see that it acts as an adverbial modifier modifying the verb (tells us when he returned to his home town).

2) There are several ways to build solid wall using just mud or clay. -- try to replace the marginal preposition "using" with the more conventional-looking "with":

There are several ways to build solid wall with just mud or clay. -- "to build with mud or clay" or "wall with mud or clay"? We have to pay close attention to the meaning of the sentence. It tell us how we can build solid wall, not what solid wall it is. So, "with mud or clay" modifies the infinitive (a verb-form) here: how can we build solid wall? We can build it "with mud or clay" or "using mud or clay".

So, "using just mud or clay" is an adverbial modifier here.

3) Yes, it can - see examples in the notes to the first question. I don't know about restrictions (and I don't very well understand what you mean).

4) a great question!
Unfortunately, my answer is not going to be as great. I think, you just have to keep in mind that some prepositions might look like Present Participles and also you have to read a lot to develop "sense" for this thing.

Good news:
I never came across a SC problem on Marginal Prepositions. I encountered them in RC passages, CR problems or in non-underlined part of SC sentences, but I never had to deal with them in order to actually solve a SC problem. (The situation on this part may change, though)

Why did I mention Marginal Prepositions in the first place if they are so unimportant?
Once, when I was preparing for the GMAT myself, I came across the preposition "following" in a RC passage. By that time I knew about Participle modifiers, but to my shame I couldn't figure out the meaning of that sentence! So I think now that it is useful to know about the existence of Marginal Prepositions, but it's not very important.
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