GMATPREP Comparison SC_ NOTES.

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lunarpower: GMAT Instructor; Posts: 3380; Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:20 amFollowed by: 1535 members; Thanked: 2256 times; GMAT Score:800

by lunarpower » Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:21 am

Helping verbs may not be repeated if both verbs are supposed to be in same tense and meaning is clear

whoa whoa there, no, i didn't say that. and that's not true.

in fact, check out the following post, in which my first set of examples directly contradicts what you've written here:
https://www.beatthegmat.com/comparisons- ... tml#300371

Ron has been teaching various standardized tests for 20 years.

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GMATMadeEasy: Legendary Member; Posts: 768; Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2009 3:46 amFollowed by: 7 members; Thanked: 21 times

by GMATMadeEasy » Thu Sep 30, 2010 4:27 am

Sorry Ron but i did not get it .

You mention in your other post : (https://www.beatthegmat.com/comparisons- ... tml#300371)

Excerpt

1) VERB TENSE SHIFT
if there is a change in verb tense between the two halves of the comparison, then you MUST include the verb in both halves. (if the verb is omitted in the second part of the comparison, then the implication is that the tense is the same in both halves.)

Conclusion here is about helping verb:
Helping verbs may not be repeated if both verbs are supposed to be in same tense and meaning is clear .All I am saying is that you may include the helping verb but if you exclude it, and meaning is clear, it is fine too no ?.

I need "does" in below sentence because of ambiguity :
I know more about shakespeare than does my brother .

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lunarpower: GMAT Instructor; Posts: 3380; Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:20 amFollowed by: 1535 members; Thanked: 2256 times; GMAT Score:800

by lunarpower » Thu Sep 30, 2010 4:58 am

GMATMadeEasy wrote:Sorry Ron but i did not get it .

You mention in your other post : (https://www.beatthegmat.com/comparisons- ... tml#300371)

Excerpt
1) VERB TENSE SHIFT
if there is a change in verb tense between the two halves of the comparison, then you MUST include the verb in both halves. (if the verb is omitted in the second part of the comparison, then the implication is that the tense is the same in both halves.)
Conclusion here is about helping verb:
Helping verbs may not be repeated if both verbs are supposed to be in same tense and meaning is clear .All I am saying is that you may include the helping verb but if you exclude it, and meaning is clear, it is fine too no ?.

I need "does" in below sentence because of ambiguity :
I know more about shakespeare than does my brother .

ah, ok, this is one of those "lost in translation" things.

native speakers of english read "may not" as "not allowed to". for instance, to native speakers of english, "you may not enter that room" means "you are not allowed to enter that room".

for what you're talking about here, native speakers of english would use "may or may not", or, even better, "doesn't have to".

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GMATMadeEasy: Legendary Member; Posts: 768; Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2009 3:46 amFollowed by: 7 members; Thanked: 21 times

by GMATMadeEasy » Thu Sep 30, 2010 6:05 am

Thank you. Edited the post .

It was GMAT CR and SC effect to scrutinize each and every word

.

I will put round 2 of POST related to same topic.

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crackit_ee: Newbie | Next Rank: 10 Posts; Posts: 3; Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 5:48 am

by crackit_ee » Mon Oct 04, 2010 10:58 pm

GMATMadeEasy wrote:Thank you. Edited the post .

It was GMAT CR and SC effect to scrutinize each and every word .

I will put round 2 of POST related to same topic.

Thanks for the interesting post.
When are you planning to start the Round 2?

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diebeatsthegmat: Legendary Member; Posts: 1119; Joined: Fri May 07, 2010 8:50 amFollowed by: 3 members; Thanked: 29 times

by diebeatsthegmat » Tue Oct 05, 2010 12:19 am

gmat_perfect wrote:
GMATMadeEasy wrote:They are from GMAT Prep or PowerPrep ?

Just want to confirm .
From GMATPREP.

I have collected about 70 questions on comparison from GMATPREP. I think that after discussing those, we will have a solid idea about the comparison sc.

Thanks.

your job is so wonderful

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GMATMadeEasy: Legendary Member; Posts: 768; Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2009 3:46 amFollowed by: 7 members; Thanked: 21 times

by GMATMadeEasy » Wed Oct 06, 2010 4:31 am

Warning : Those who do not want to go through explanation of GMATprep question, you might like to stay away from the posts below. I do not completely remember, but there is a good mix of GATPrep explanations.

Round 2 : Ellipsis (better to follow with examples as rules alone can not aid much) ; A very good question that can be used as a case study to learn many concepts.

Note 2.1
----------------------------------------------------------
Despite recent increases in sales and cash flow that have propelled automobile companies' common stocks to new highs, several industry analysts expect automakers, in order to conserve cash, to set dividends more conservatively than they were.

A) to set dividends more conservatively than they were
B) to set dividends more conservatively than they have been
C) to be more conservative than they have been in setting dividends
D) that they will be more conservative than they were in setting dividends
E) that they will be more conservative than they have been to set dividends

OA is C
--------------------------------------------------
whenever you use a parallel structure with omitted/elided words, the EXACT omitted word(s) MUST be present, IN PARALLEL STRUCTURE, elsewhere in the sentence. This means in exactly the same form - no alterations, no tense changes, and no nothing.
this kills choice (b). that choice ends with "...than they have been", which omits a participle: in other words, it's actually "...than they have been ______", where the ______ is clearly seen to be setting (dividends).
since the EXACT WORD setting doesn't appear anywhere else in this sentence, the sentence is incorrect.

by contrast, choice (c) is a-ok on this point. this choice also contains "...than they have been (__________)", where the parallel concept, "(more) conservative", actually appears elsewhere in the sentence.

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GMATMadeEasy: Legendary Member; Posts: 768; Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2009 3:46 amFollowed by: 7 members; Thanked: 21 times

by GMATMadeEasy » Wed Oct 06, 2010 4:36 am

Note 2.2 : Another important question

Soaring television costs accounted for more than half the spending in the presidential campaign of 1992, a greater proportion than it was in any previous election.

A. a greater proportion than it was
B. a greater proportion than
C. a greater proportion than they have been
D. which is greater than was so
E. which is greater than it has been

Oa is B
----------------------------

First, you can't have exactly the same noun on both sides of the comparison, so "it" is barred from standing for whatever is in the other half of the comparison.

"it" must stand for a noun with all attached adjectives and essential modifiers -- you can't just cherry-pick the noun, leave the modifiers behind, and assume that "it" stands for that noun by itself.
Example: summers in Las Vegas are hotter than they are in providence. (Not parallel in structure) --> WRONG
the intention here is clearly that "they" should stand for "summers", but it doesn't -- it MUST stand for the entire construction "summers in las vegas", since you are not allowed to discard the essential modifier.
Therefore, this sentence unintentionally refers to las vegas summers that are in providence, an absurd notion.

Summers are hotter in las vegas than they are in providence. (Parallel in structure)n--> CORRECT ("they" = summers)
this sentence would be better written as just "...than in providence", but it's also fine like this.

A concern you might have:
About choice B:
In choice B, what two thing we're comparing (if it's not the cost)?
In choice B, it seems to me:
greater X than Y where X & Y are NOT similar things.
X=proportion Y=in any previous election

Answer: There's ellipsis here. The understood comparison is a repeated instance of "proportion".
In contexts in which you would repeat a noun, you don't have to include the repeated noun; you may merely imply it. This is known as ellipsis.
For instance: This year's heavyweight champion is shorter than last year's.
Here, the second half of the comparison is clearly "last year's heavyweight champion", but you don't have to say "heavyweight champion" again.
One can think of parallelism as well here.(Comment by me)

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GMATMadeEasy: Legendary Member; Posts: 768; Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2009 3:46 amFollowed by: 7 members; Thanked: 21 times

by GMATMadeEasy » Wed Oct 06, 2010 4:39 am

Note 2.3

There is a widespread belief in the United States and Western Europe that young people have a smaller commitment to work and a career than their parents and grandparents and that the source of the change lies in the collapse of the "work ethic."

(A) a smaller commitment to work and a career than their parents and grandparents
(B) less of a commitment to work and a career than their parents and grandparents
(C) a smaller commitment to work and a career than that of their parents and grandparents
(D) less of a commitment to work and a career than their parents and grandparents had
(E) a lessening of the commitment to work and a career that their parents and grandparents had

OA is D
--------------------------------------
some interesting explanations In B meaning is also ambiguous.
The biggest problem with (c) is "that of", which is not actually parallel to anything at all.
If you write "that of their parents and grandparents", then this MUST be parallel to one of the following two types of constructions:
* another OF construction (the commitment of young people)
* a POSSESSIVE construction (young people's commitment)

since neither of these constructions appears in the first part of the sentence, you can't use "that of" in the second part.

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GMATMadeEasy: Legendary Member; Posts: 768; Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2009 3:46 amFollowed by: 7 members; Thanked: 21 times

by GMATMadeEasy » Wed Oct 06, 2010 4:47 am

Note 2.4

Only seven people this century have been killed by the great white shark, the man-eater of the movies-less than those killed by bee stings.

a. movies-less than those
b. movies-fewer than have been
c. movies, which is less than those
d. movies, a number lower than the people
e. movies, fewer than the ones

OA is B
-------------------------------------------------------
1. D compares number with people so wrong
2. You can't use parallel constructions with "those"/"that"/etc unless they are EXACTLY PARALLEL to whatever shows up in the other part.

When making a comparison, however, we use that to replace a singular noun and those to replace a plural noun:
The price this year, like that of last year, is quite reasonable.
Prices this year, like those of last year, are quite reasonable.

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GMATMadeEasy: Legendary Member; Posts: 768; Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2009 3:46 amFollowed by: 7 members; Thanked: 21 times

by GMATMadeEasy » Wed Oct 06, 2010 4:51 am

These last few questions might look a few in number , but they cover many , most ambiguous problems . The posts above are result of the kind of issues I faced , so they might be biased in terms of explanation.

If anyone has a doubt, it can be posted here, and we can disucss further with the help of the experts.

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GMATMadeEasy: Legendary Member; Posts: 768; Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2009 3:46 amFollowed by: 7 members; Thanked: 21 times

by GMATMadeEasy » Thu Oct 07, 2010 1:57 pm

Ron a question for you with respect to the Note 2.2 :

First, you can't have exactly the same noun on both sides of the comparison, so "it" is barred from standing for whatever is in the other half of the comparison.

I have copied this from your explanation from Manhattan site . Since I have read this, I was thinking I have misunderstood something and now, I found the question to get it clarified . There you go with another GMATPrep :

Since 1990 the global economy has grown more than it did during the 10,000 years from the beginning of agriculture to 1950.

A) Since 1990 the global economy has grown more than it did during the 10,000 years from the beginning of agriculture to 1950.
B) Since 1990 the growth of the global economy has been more than that during 10,000 years, from when agriculture began.
C) The growth of the global economy since 1990 exceeds that which had been for 10,000 years from the beginning of agriculture.
D) The growth of the global economy since 1990 exceeds what it has been for 10,000 years, from when agriculture began
E) The growth of the global economy since 1990 exceeds what it did for the 10,000 years from the beginning of agriculture.
OA iS A

Could you explain usage of it here in reference to the quote from your post. It looks I misinterpret your statement by thinking that bolded it can not be used for subject ion left hand side , which is the global economy .

I have no other issue with this question.

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lunarpower: GMAT Instructor; Posts: 3380; Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:20 amFollowed by: 1535 members; Thanked: 2256 times; GMAT Score:800

by lunarpower » Sun Oct 10, 2010 12:52 am

GMATMadeEasy wrote:Ron a question for you with respect to the Note 2.2 :

First, you can't have exactly the same noun on both sides of the comparison, so "it" is barred from standing for whatever is in the other half of the comparison.
I have copied this from your explanation from Manhattan site . Since I have read this, I was thinking I have misunderstood something and now, I found the question to get it clarified . There you go with another GMATPrep :

Since 1990 the global economy has grown more than it did during the 10,000 years from the beginning of agriculture to 1950.

A) Since 1990 the global economy has grown more than it did during the 10,000 years from the beginning of agriculture to 1950.
B) Since 1990 the growth of the global economy has been more than that during 10,000 years, from when agriculture began.
C) The growth of the global economy since 1990 exceeds that which had been for 10,000 years from the beginning of agriculture.
D) The growth of the global economy since 1990 exceeds what it has been for 10,000 years, from when agriculture began
E) The growth of the global economy since 1990 exceeds what it did for the 10,000 years from the beginning of agriculture.
OA iS A

Could you explain usage of it here in reference to the quote from your post. It looks I misinterpret your statement by thinking that bolded it can not be used for subject ion left hand side , which is the global economy .

I have no other issue with this question.

ah, ok, i can see how that may not have been clear enough.
what i meant by that was:
1) if you write a comparison of the form "X is greater than Y", then X and Y can't be exactly the same thing.
2) if you write a comparison of the form "X was a greater Z than Y", then, if there is a pronoun in "Y", that pronoun doesn't stand for Z.

hope that makes all of this more clear.

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