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Alexander Mosaic

by rohitacmilan » Fri Nov 08, 2013 12:53 am
The Alexander Mosaic, a famous floor mosaic originally from the House of the Faun in Pompeii, which depicts a battle between the armies of Alexander the Great and Darius III of Persia.

A. which depicts a battle between the armies of Alexander the Great and
B. which depicts a battle between the armies of Alexander the Great and that of
C. depicts a battle between the armies of Alexander the Great and those of
D. depicts a battle between the armies of Alexander the Great and
E. and this mosaic depicts a battle between armies of Alexander the Great and

OA - Option D

I thought Option C fits perfectly.
the battle is between the armies of Alexander and armies of Darius III.
Hence I used "those of".

Please let me know if my thinking is incorrect.

Source: Page A.123 Question# 3
Sentence Correction for the Gmat 1st Edition (Pearson Education India) - MVL Ramana Rao
https://www.amazon.com/Sentence-Correcti ... 8131785076[/url]
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Source: — Sentence Correction |
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by AbhiS » Fri Nov 08, 2013 1:20 am
rohitacmilan wrote:The Alexander Mosaic, a famous floor mosaic originally from the House of the Faun in Pompeii, which depicts a battle between the armies of Alexander the Great and Darius III of Persia.

A. which depicts a battle between the armies of Alexander the Great and
B. which depicts a battle between the armies of Alexander the Great and that of
C. depicts a battle between the armies of Alexander the Great and those of
D. depicts a battle between the armies of Alexander the Great and
E. and this mosaic depicts a battle between armies of Alexander the Great and

OA - Option D

I thought Option C fits perfectly.
the battle is between the armies of Alexander and armies of Darius III.
Hence I used "those of".

Please let me know if my thinking is incorrect.

Source: Page A.123 Question# 3
Sentence Correction for the Gmat 1st Edition (Pearson Education India) - MVL Ramana Rao
https://www.amazon.com/Sentence-Correcti ... 8131785076[/url]
-----------
I choose D

the only reason was its more concise than C. I could not think of any other reason.

In the mean while i found something interesting. I think this sentence has been picked from this link - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Mosaic

Thanks
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by AbhiS » Fri Nov 08, 2013 1:36 am
Hi Again,

I guess i actually found the explanation to your question. There is a similar problem on GMAT Prep which was discussed on various forums.

I am posting the link of the one which i liked the best.

https://www.manhattangmat.com/forums/for ... t6655.html

Please look at Ron's explanation dated Tue Apr 28, 2009 6:20 am this would answer your query.

I hope it helps. Thanks
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by theCodeToGMAT » Fri Nov 08, 2013 1:41 am
{A} - INCORRECT; verb missing
{B} - INCORRECT; verb missing
{C} - INCORRECT; "those of" is redundant
{D} - CORRECT;
{E} - INCORRECT; verb missing

In {D}
the armies of Alexander the Great and Darius III of Persia
--> We can re-write this as: the army of Alexander the Great AND the army of Darius III of Persia

In {C}
the armies of Alexander the Great and those of Darius III of Persia
--> We can re-write this as: the army of Alexander the Great AND the army of those of Darius III of Persia
Last edited by theCodeToGMAT on Fri Nov 08, 2013 4:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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by AbhiS » Fri Nov 08, 2013 1:58 am
theCodeToGMAT wrote:{A} - INCORRECT; verb missing
{B} - INCORRECT; verb missing
{C} - INCORRECT; "those of" is redundant
{D} - CORRECT;
{E} - INCORRECT; verb missing

In {D}
the armies of Alexander the Great and Darius III of Persia
--> We can re-write this as: the armies of Alexander the Great AND the armies of Darius III of Persia

In {C}
the armies of Alexander the Great and those of Darius III of Persia
--> We can re-write this as: the armies of Alexander the Great AND the armies of those of Darius III of Persia
Actually the reason you have eliminated C is wrong. Its not because it is redundant, but those of is a grammatical error.

Please check the link I have posted in the above link

I hope it helps. Thanks
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by theCodeToGMAT » Fri Nov 08, 2013 2:04 am
AbhiS wrote: Actually the reason you have eliminated C is wrong. Its not because it is redundant, but those of is a grammatical error.

Please check the link I have posted in the above link

I hope it helps. Thanks
AbhiS, the link contains many posts; Please share the post which is not in agreement.

Also, the reason {C} is wrong is we are already talking about the "armies", so if we use "those of" with the second entity to refer to armies than it's a redundant usage as we are already talking about the armies.
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by theCodeToGMAT » Fri Nov 08, 2013 2:06 am
An example to my above post:

I like cars of BMW and those of AUDI.

-- here we are already talking about the "cars", so if we now try to use "those" to refer to cars of AUDI then it's an redundant usage by meaning; you can also say parallelism issue.
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by AbhiS » Fri Nov 08, 2013 2:45 am
theCodeToGMAT wrote:An example to my above post:

I like cars of BMW and those of AUDI.

-- here we are already talking about the "cars", so if we now try to use "those" to refer to cars of AUDI then it's an redundant usage by meaning; you can also say parallelism issue.
Hi Rahul,

Seems like you have got offended. That was not my intention....

analogy: - this was used by Ron to explain the similar SC structure. - https://www.manhattangmat.com/forums/for ... t6655.html

the high-class society of miami and ft. lauderdale --> makes sense. the two cities share one high-class society.

the high-class societies of miami and ft. lauderdale --> makes sense. the two cities have separate high-class societies.

the high-class society of miami and of ft. lauderdale --> doesn't make sense.

the high-class societies of miami and of ft. lauderdale --> makes sense. the two cities have separate high-class societies.
-----

Apart from this, armies is used in plural form because it stands for both - Army of X and Army of Y - Again refer to the link in this post and look for Stacey's discussion in the start. She clarifies this point as well.

I m not sure about the example you have posted because both of the manufactures you have stated make a lot of car models.
So the cars can stand for all the models they manufacture and then the comparison would be right.
Also, those is used as a Demonstrative Pronoun - Those indicating a New Copies must be modified. In other words, you have to add a description to indicate how the new copy is different from the previous one.

Now referring back to the original sentence and using Ron's example

the army of Alexander the Great and Darius III of Persia - The 2 Warriors share the same army (thats not the intended meaning in this sentence)

the armies of Alexander the Great and Darius III of Persia - Correct - 2 warriors have separate army

the armies of Alexander the Great and of Darius III of Persia - Correct again- 2 warriors have separate army (Of will not be redundant here and adding those before of would certainly be wrong)

I hope it helps. Thanks
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by rohitacmilan » Fri Nov 08, 2013 3:49 am
@Ashis,

Following your argument, if I remove "those" from Option C, which one should I choose

Is it still Option D - because of concise expression (fewer words)
or will it be Option C - because "of Darius III" makes the sentence less ambiguous?

Once again, thanks for a lively discussion on this SC question.
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by theCodeToGMAT » Fri Nov 08, 2013 3:50 am
Cmon AbhiS, obviously I am not offended.. I am neither an Expert nor a Writer/Editor :) .. I am just a non-native speaker.. So, you can expect some battle when dealing with close English constructs.

Sticking to the example I gave,

A. I like cars of BMW and those of AUDI.

B. I like cars of BMW and AUDI.

C. I like cars of BMW and of AUDI.

Which one you would chose and, more important, why?

According to me, the problem with your reasoning to eliminate {C} is rather incomplete.. you cannot eliminate {C} by saying that {D} is more concise. {C} has more of meaning redundancy issue because of "those of" usage.. we are already talking about the "armies" and "those of" is again referring back to "armies".
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by GMATGuruNY » Fri Nov 08, 2013 4:15 am
Generally, we use army to refer a BODY of land forces.
In the SC above:
The mosaic depicts ONE BATTLE.
This battle is between ONE body of land forces (Alexander the Great's army) and ANOTHER (Darius III's army).
Within the context of a single battle, we generally do not say that the ARMIES of X fought the ARMIES of Y, since army on its own implies each side's ENTIRE body of land forces.
C: a battle between the armies of Alexander the Great and THOSE of Darius III
Here, THOSE of Darius III -- which implies the ARMIES of Darius III -- does not convey the intended meaning.
Last edited by GMATGuruNY on Fri Nov 08, 2013 8:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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by AbhiS » Fri Nov 08, 2013 4:55 am
rohitacmilan wrote:@Ashis,

Following your argument, if I remove "those" from Option C, which one should I choose

Is it still Option D - because of concise expression (fewer words)
or will it be Option C - because "of Darius III" makes the sentence less ambiguous?

Once again, thanks for a lively discussion on this SC question.
Hi,


Déjà Vu!!

This is a similar question to what I asked Ron yesterday under a different topic

Quote by Ron "How should you choose between two correct answers? Well, you can't. They're two correct answers.

No GMAT problem will have more than one correct answer."

This is the link to his reply check the last reply - https://www.manhattangmat.com/forums/whe ... c2b658c890
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by AbhiS » Fri Nov 08, 2013 5:02 am
theCodeToGMAT wrote:Cmon AbhiS, obviously I am not offended.. I am neither an Expert nor a Writer/Editor :) .. I am just a non-native speaker.. So, you can expect some battle when dealing with close English constructs.

Sticking to the example I gave,

A. I like cars of BMW and those of AUDI.

B. I like cars of BMW and AUDI.

C. I like cars of BMW and of AUDI.

Which one you would chose and, more important, why?

According to me, the problem with your reasoning to eliminate {C} is rather incomplete.. you cannot eliminate {C} by saying that {D} is more concise. {C} has more of meaning redundancy issue because of "those of" usage.. we are already talking about the "armies" and "those of" is again referring back to "armies".
Hi Rahul,

I m not an expert too. Just a student like yourself.

I guess in this case all of the options you have stated would be correct.

Pls refer to my last post before this one where I have quoted Ron

I hope it helps. Thanks.
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by theCodeToGMAT » Fri Nov 08, 2013 5:33 am
Hi Mitch,

I have a doubt. In the below sentences.. which one is correct?

A. I like cars of BMW and those of AUDI.

B. I like cars of BMW and AUDI.

C. I like cars of BMW and of AUDI.

Also, isn't "those of" redundant in {A}.. we are already talking about "cars" so explicitly restating cars using "those of" isn't redundant?
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by GMATGuruNY » Sat Nov 09, 2013 4:24 pm
Incorrect: John photographed the buildings of London and those of Paris.
Here, those of is unnecessary.
Correct: John photographed the buildings of London and Paris.
No native speaker would say the buildings of London and OF Paris.

On the GMAT, those of typically serves to express a COMPARISON.
SC7 in the OG12:
As sales of computer products have surpassed THOSE OF measuring instruments...
Here, sales of computer products are being compared to THOSE OF measuring instruments.
Hence, the use of those of is appropriate.
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