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Probability Inquiry

Expert replies
by fangtray » Sat Apr 21, 2012 8:13 pm
Hello, I have an inquiry on probability I was hoping an expert could explain to me. I'm more concerned with WHY something works, than HOW something works in this regard. For example:

What is the probability of getting heads at least once in 2 coin flips?

we have the nCK/2^n formula which gives [(2!/1!)/(2^n)+ (2!/2!)/(2^n)] = 3/4
We have the 1 - no heads strategy: 1-(1/2*1/2) = 3/4
we have P(a or b) 1/2+1/2-1/4 = 3/4

but here why do we need to subtract 1/4 the possibility of getting heads twice? it is one of the favorable outcomes. Obviously if we don't, we would get 100% chance, and that's not correct. But why do we have to subtract in this case?

If this is true, then this must also be true:

What is the chance of getting at least one 1 or one 5 in 2 rolls of a dice?

1/3 + 1/3 - (1/9) <--- the 1/9 would be from getting a 1 or a 5 in both rolls, which is (1/3*1/3).

Can someone confirm with me if this is correct?


Also, if we say, what is the probability of getting heads only ONCE in 2 flips of a coin?

then it would be 2!/1!/2^2 = 1/2

or (1/2 (heads on first flip) * 1/2 (tails on 2nd flip) PLUS (1/2 (tails on first flip) * 1/2 (heads on 2nd flip) giving us 1/4+1/4 = 1/2.

furthermore, if we wanted to do 1 head on 3 flips of a coin, then its 3/8. using the same strategies.

But let's look at the example with the 1 or 5 in 3 rolls of a dice this time. the question would ask: What is the probability of getting at least a 1 or a 5 in 3 rolls of a die?


1/3 + 1/3 + 1/3 - 1/27 or 1/9? both aren't correct, so what do we minus in this case? and why do we need to minus? We did however, in the previous example of 2 rolls of a dice. It seems to me when there are 3 occurences, the P(a or b) formula doesn't seem to work anymore. Even the coin scenario. Which is why I can't grasp the idea of why we need to subtract.

when we rolled the die twice, it was 1/3 + 1/3 - 1/9 = 5/9, but with 3 rolls, this formula doesn't seem to work anymore.

but does this strategy work still?

1-(no 1 or 5) = 1 - (2/3)(2/3)(2/3) = 1 - 8/27 = 19/27 chance you will get at least a 1 or a 5 in 3 rolls of a dice.


I know this post was a little all over the place, but I hope it can be seen what area of probability i am failing to understand.

thanks so much,

ray
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Source: — Problem Solving |

by Stuart@KaplanGMAT » Sat Apr 21, 2012 10:14 pm
Hi Ray,

I'm not a big fan of the P(A) + P(B) - P(A&B) approach, since as you point out it can get confusing in more complicated situations. If you're comfortable with the other approaches, I'm not sure why you'd ever use this one.

That said, and since you seek understanding (always a good thing), let's break down the coin flip question to understand why you have to subtract that extra bit.

When you flip a coin twice, there are 4 possible outcomes:

HH
HT
TH
TT

If you want at least 1 head, you can quickly see that 3/4 outcomes match what you want, hence our probability of 3/4.

Now let's look at it from the P(A)/P(B) approach.

P(A) refers the chance that the first flip is a head and P(B) refers to the chance that the second flip is a head. If we look solely at the first and second flip, we see that flip 1 was heads twice and flip 2 was heads twice. So, if we just add those up, we have 4 outcomes in which we have 1 flip.

However, a quick check tells us that we double counted one outcome - we counted HH as a favourable outcome both for the first flip AND for the second flip. Accordingly, we need to subtract one outcome to get the true count.

So: favourable outcomes = 2 + 2 - 1
Total # of possibilities = 4

and

prob = (favourable outcomes)/(total # of outcomes) = 3/4

To generalize, on both coin flip and die roll questions, you need to subtract the number of double (and triple and quadruple and so on) number of outcomes from the number of favourable outcomes, i.e. the numerator.

* * *

Applying this method to your die roll question:

If you roll a fair six-sided die twice, what's the probability of getting at least one 1 or 5?

There are 6*6 total possibilities.

There are 12 rolls in which we get a 1 or 5 on the first die (2*6).
There are 12 rolls in which we get a 1 or 5 on the second die (6*2).
There are 4 rolls in which we get a 1 or 5 on BOTH rolls (2*2).

So, the true count of favourable outcomes is 12 + 12 - 4 = 20.

Consequently, the probability = 20/36 = 5/9

* * *

When you have triple/quadruple/etc overlaps, it becomes much more complicated - a really good argument for not using this approach on more than 2 rolls/flips (if ever).
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