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Take a class before or after first attempt?

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Take a class before or after first attempt?

by dorschrm » Thu Jan 19, 2017 4:41 pm
I am trying to decide whether or not to take a class before my first attempt at the gmat in April.

Main argument against: If I don't have to spend $1,500ish on a class to get a 700, why would I?

Main argument for: Unlikely I'm going to get 700 first take without the class, so why not be efficient with the time.

Also - IF I don't score 700 the first time, and I didn't take a class, I will indeed take a class and re-take. If I don't score a 700 the first time and I did take a class, unlikely to re-take.

Would be great to get another opinion on this.
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by Bara » Fri Jan 20, 2017 12:25 am
Before you decide to take a class or not... take a diagnostic, preferably, a GMAC one. How you perform, now, on a GMAC diagnostic, especially without study, will be an accurate snapshot of your score should you go into the GMAT cold, without study. You can take an official diagnostic CAT test here: https://www.mba.com/us/the-gmat-exam/pre ... tware.aspx

There are 'other' options besides a class or no class. Self study. Group Study. Buddy Study. Tutor. Within those, there are various ways to study. Do you know your best way of learning this kind of material? Taking tests or chunking your learning from the highest yield topics to least?

Courses come at all levels and values. The more convenient and individualized, usually the more expensive, because the more specific to your needs it becomes, the more streamlined to your needs. Making it more efficient, likely. And taught by highly specialized educators, usually.

Now, I have a few questions for you - -
  • Have you done any study yet?
    Do you know 'what' is on the GMAT?
    If you could guess, what do you think your score would be?
    Have you taken any diagnostic tests?
    Do you know what schools you're applying to?
    When are you applying?
    And why the definitive '700'?

Among other things, business school is about upgrading your leadership skills. The GMAT is a test that identifies those who have traits of a leader - - one who takes calculated risks vs. overly cautious or reckless.

I suggest after you get your diagnostic score, you consider what is the best ROI for yourself in prepping for the GMAT. Think like a biz leader throughout this process and it will continue to promote the kind of thinking you'll be rewarded on the GMAT, in biz school and as a biz professional.

Let us know how it goes!

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by DavidG@VeritasPrep » Fri Jan 20, 2017 7:56 am
dorschrm wrote:I am trying to decide whether or not to take a class before my first attempt at the gmat in April.

Main argument against: If I don't have to spend $1,500ish on a class to get a 700, why would I?

Main argument for: Unlikely I'm going to get 700 first take without the class, so why not be efficient with the time.

Also - IF I don't score 700 the first time, and I didn't take a class, I will indeed take a class and re-take. If I don't score a 700 the first time and I did take a class, unlikely to re-take.

Would be great to get another opinion on this.
I'll second some of Bara's advice here. Take a diagnostic and get a baseline. Next, take some free prep resources for a spin to get a sense of what material meshes well with your learning style. Last, do a free trial class. If you get the instinctive sense that the class is going to be a dramatic help, go for it. If not, try self-study first. The important thing is that you make an informed decision and go with what feels right for you.

(Here's our question bank: https://www.veritasprep.com/gmat/gmat-question-bank/
And our app: https://itunes.apple.com/us/developer/v ... d307339099
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by DavidG@VeritasPrep » Fri Jan 20, 2017 7:59 am
If I don't score a 700 the first time and I did take a class, unlikely to re-take.
One last point: if you don't get your desired score the first time around, you should definitely retake. I once had a student who was so nervous the first time she took the exam, she scored in the mid 500's, which was about 100 points lower than her practice exam scores. She took the test again three weeks later and got a 740. This is an extreme example, but instructive nonetheless. You shouldn't let a single off-day derail your grad school plans.
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by [email protected] » Fri Jan 20, 2017 10:12 am
Hi dorschrm,

From your post, it sounds like you're just beginning your studies, so it would be a good idea to take a FULL-LENGTH practice CAT Test; you can download 2 for free from www.mba.com (and they come with some additional practice materials). If you want to do a little studying first, so that you can familiarize yourself with the basic content and question types, then that's okay - but you shouldn't wait too long to take that initial CAT. That score will give us a good sense of your natural strengths and weaknesses and will help provide a basis for comparison as you continue to study. A FULL CAT takes about 4 hours to complete, so make sure that you've set aside enough time to take it in one sitting. Once you have those scores, you should report back here and we can come up with a study plan.

I'd like to know a bit more about your timeline and goals:
1) It sounds like your goal is 700+? Would you still retake if you scored 680 or 690?
2) When are you planning to apply to Business School?
3) What Schools are you planning to apply to?

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by dorschrm » Thu Feb 02, 2017 9:24 am
Hi All. Thank you for your input. I did indeed take the full length CAT test right away and scored in the mid 5s, obviously a bit below my target. The one thing I thought was frustrating about the test was they don't offer detailed explanations of the answers.

At this point, I have outlined a plan whereby I will continue to focus on Quant for the next couple weeks by reading through the Kaplan book I have, doing practice problems, and learning/re-learning the various topics where I am unclear. I have been dedicating about 12-15 hours a week to this. I am also creating flashcards as I go with problems/topics I got wrong and revisiting those on a daily basis.

I will turn my attention to verbal section in a couple weeks, and then devote the last 3-4 weeks before taking the test to doing practice tests and leaning heavily on flashcards to help me through problematic topics.

I don't intend on taking a class for this first run. I may bring in a tudor if I feel it would help bridge some of my gaps in an efficient manner. Realizing you all probably offer these services, what is "market" for an hourly tudor rate?
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by [email protected] » Thu Feb 02, 2017 10:53 am
Hi dorschrm,

To start, I have a few questions about this CAT:

1) What was your exact score (including the Quant and Verbal Scaled Scores)?
2) Did you complete the FULL CAT (with the Essay and IR sections)?

Beyond those details, I have some additional questions and suggestions:

3) Have you scheduled your Official GMAT yet (and what is the exact Test Date)?

You should plan to take FULL CATs at regular intervals during your studies (and not just at the end). We need to be able to judge whether your study routine is leading to improvement - and the only practical way to do that is for you to take CATs (under realistic conditions) so that we can gauge your progress. As such, you should plan to take a new CAT every 1-2 weeks. Beyond that, you would also likely find it beneficial to study some Quant and some Verbal each week (as opposed to the 'all of one, then all of the other' plan that you've hinted at). Given your 700+ score goal, you will likely need at least another 3 months of consistent, guided study to get to that level (and it's not clear whether your current Study Plan will actually provide that or not) - you should keep that in mind if you have not scheduled your Official Test Date yet.

If you have any additional questions, then you can feel free to contact me directly.

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by ceilidh.erickson » Sat Feb 04, 2017 10:51 am
dorschrm wrote:Hi All. Thank you for your input. I did indeed take the full length CAT test right away and scored in the mid 5s, obviously a bit below my target. The one thing I thought was frustrating about the test was they don't offer detailed explanations of the answers.
You should start with practice tests from a prep company - these will provide detailed explanations and allow you to run metrics. A mid-500s score isn't what you'd want to see on test day, but it's not necessarily a bad starting point!
At this point, I have outlined a plan whereby I will continue to focus on Quant for the next couple weeks by reading through the Kaplan book I have, doing practice problems, and learning/re-learning the various topics where I am unclear. I have been dedicating about 12-15 hours a week to this. I am also creating flashcards as I go with problems/topics I got wrong and revisiting those on a daily basis.
I will turn my attention to verbal section in a couple weeks, and then devote the last 3-4 weeks before taking the test to doing practice tests and leaning heavily on flashcards to help me through problematic topics.
It's a bad idea to try to "finish" the quant before starting verbal. It's much better to do a little bit of each every single week. Alternate between topics. You also shouldn't wait until the very end of your studies to take practice exams. You need to build up stamina, timing sense, guessing strategies, and decision-making in addition to content knowledge. Take one every 2-3 weeks throughout your process.

See the study plan I outline here: https://www.beatthegmat.com/materials-an ... tml#787892
I don't intend on taking a class for this first run. I may bring in a tudor if I feel it would help bridge some of my gaps in an efficient manner. Realizing you all probably offer these services, what is "market" for an hourly tudor rate?
You certainly don't need to take a class or do tutoring to do well on this test, though they can help.

Here is a FREE / LOW-COST STUDY PLAN I've outlined: https://www.beatthegmat.com/a-place-to-s ... tml#786920

If you're plateauing after studying on your own, then a tutor can certainly help. As with many things, though, you often get what you pay for. Make sure you're working with a tutor who has certified 99th percentile scores, teaching experience, and specific training on the GMAT. There are many so-called "experts" out there with dubious knowledge, and many have never actually taken the real test.

Here is some information on Manhattan Prep's tutoring services, if you're interested: https://www.manhattanprep.com/gmat/prep/tutoring/

Good luck!
Ceilidh Erickson
EdM in Mind, Brain, and Education
Harvard Graduate School of Education
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by Bara » Sat Feb 04, 2017 11:25 am
Just a clarification --

The caution against using a third party test - - they aren't written by the test writers and it's best to get your brain to both consciously and unconsciously engage with the material and 'energy' of the real questions. Working from the real tests means you have the same questions written by the same people. It's kinda like getting Cherrios versus Store-brand version of Cherrios or any other name-brand item . They look almost the same, taste almost the same, even 'crunch' almost the same. But not quite. And they're not the same. Yes. use third party tests if you've exhausted the real stuff, but only as practice to expand your bandwidth and perspective. And know they're limited.

Also: third party tests are not all created equal. Buyer beware.
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by ceilidh.erickson » Sat Feb 04, 2017 11:34 am
I agree with Bara on certain points - the GMAC tests are the "real" deal, so they'll be closest to what you'll see of test-day. And yes, there is a wide range in quality of 3rd party tests, so do your homework on which prep companies are most reputable.

I will respectfully disagree on one point: I don't think that you should exhaust GMAC content first, then turn to prep companies. GMAC tests do not provide explanations or allow you to run Assessment Reports to track your work (as Mprep and other companies' tests do). That makes these harder to interpret - you won't have as clear a sense of your strengths and weaknesses without keeping laborious spreadsheets of your own. There is also no way to track timing on GMAC tests.

While you're in the midst of your studies, I think it's more helpful to use prep company tests. When you're nearing test day (and have less need to track metrics), switch to GMAC tests.
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by Bara » Sat Feb 04, 2017 4:55 pm
Let me elaborate - - ceilidh.erickson and I are likely more on the same page with this.

- - If you've already studied and have exhausted all the GMAC tests, by all means, USE third party tests!
- - If you're studying - - and haven't exhausted GMAC tests, then pepper them into your studies and also use third party tests if you have enough time to do so.

GMAC tests not having extensive explanations is a vote for being active on this site to get some perspectives on why you didn't get something correct OR best methods in doing so. Sometimes experts answer, sometimes other test takers. It's a dynamic learning environment that you can leverage to help you. It's also a vote for getting an expert tutor who will be able to explain things. Nuff said. :)
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