Venn Diagram

Problem Solving — algebra and arithmetic (GMAT Focus Edition)
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Venn Diagram

by sunny.bhasin » Sat Jun 11, 2011 3:07 am
Q) In a class of 50 students, 20 play Hockey, 15 play Cricket and 11 play Football.7 play both Hockey and Cricket, 4 play Cricket and Football and 5 play Hockey and football.If 18 students does not play any of these given sports, ho many students play exactly two of these sports?

Can someone help me solve this one?
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by cans » Sat Jun 11, 2011 6:00 am
total 50
18 none
thus 32 atleast 1.
20H,15C,11F,7HC,4CF,5HF
exactly2 = 7+4+5 - 3*(exactly3) = 16-3*(exactly 3)
32 = 20 + 15+11 - 7 - 4 -5 + 2*(exactly 3)
exactly 3=1
thus exactly 2 = 16-3=13
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by Tani » Mon Jun 13, 2011 7:36 am
There is a formula for dealing with this.
Gf + Gh + Gc - Gfh - Gfc - Ghc - 2(Gfhc) + None = Total

Where Gf = those playing football and Gfh = those playing both football and hockey, etc. You must subtract those individuals who play two sports because they are counted twice and subtract two times those individuals who play three sports because they are counted three times.

11 + 20 + 15 - 5 - 4 - 7 - 2(Gfhc) + 18 = 50
2(Gfhc) = 2, one individual plays all three.

You calculate exactly two by adding those who play two and subtracting 3 (representing the one person who plays three sports and is therefore counted three times)

5 + 4 + 7 - 3 = 13
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by ma127 » Sat Jun 18, 2011 3:53 pm
Tani Wolff - Kaplan wrote:There is a formula for dealing with this.
Gf + Gh + Gc - Gfh - Gfc - Ghc - 2(Gfhc) + None = Total
isnt it +2(Gfhc)?

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by Tani » Sun Jun 19, 2011 10:05 am
NO - you have to subtract. IF an item is counted three times you have to subtract two of those times to get back to the actual item count.
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by ma127 » Sun Jun 19, 2011 3:02 pm
Tani Wolff - Kaplan wrote:
11 + 20 + 15 - 5 - 4 - 7 - 2(Gfhc) + 18 = 50
2(Gfhc) = 2, one individual plays all three.
11 + 20 + 15 - 5 - 4 - 7 - 2(Gfhc) + 18 = 50
=> 48 - 2(Gfhc) = 50
=> 2(Gfhc) = -2 ? formula must be missing smth

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by MM_Ed » Sun Jun 19, 2011 4:34 pm
Image

Only H = 10
Only F = 4
Only C = 6
HC (no F) = 5
HF (no C) = 3
CF (no H) = 2
HFC = 2
----
Total = 32
+ 18 non-players = 50

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by ma127 » Sun Jun 19, 2011 5:34 pm
Gf + Gh + Gc - Gfh - Gfc - Ghc - 2(Gfhc) + None = Total
20 + 15 + 11 - Gfh - Gfc - Ghc - 2(Gfhc) + 18 = 50
64 - Gfh - Gfc - Ghc - 2(Gfhc) = 50
64 - (5-(Gfhc)) - (4-(Gfhc)) - (7-(Gfhc)) - 2(Gfhc) = 50
64 - 5 + (Gfhc) - 4 + (Gfhc) - 7 + (Gfhc) - 2(Gfhc) = 50
48 + (Gfhc) = 50
(Gfhc) = 2 ---> all three

Gfh + Gfc + Ghc =
= (5-(Gfhc)) + (4-(Gfhc)) + (7-(Gfhc) =
= 5 - 2 + 4 - 2 + 7 - 2 = 10 ---> just two

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by patanjali.purpose » Tue Aug 02, 2011 3:59 pm
IMO 10

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by pinchharmonic » Thu Aug 04, 2011 5:34 pm
I also come up with 10, what's the verdict?

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by MrR » Thu Aug 04, 2011 10:50 pm
The answer is ten. The formula given earlier contained an error.

Removing the 18 individuals that don't play from the 50 surveyed leaves 32 in the union of the three circular regions.
I have labeled them H, C, and F. In this tri-ring area, those who play Hockey "or" Cricket "or" Football are represented.
If I use the G notation described above, the formula for this number of members in this union is:

g(HuCuF)= g(H)+g(C)+g(F)-g(H&C)-g(H&F)-g(C&F)+g(H&C&F)

inputing our values gives:
.... 32 = 20 + 15 + 11 - 7 - 5 - 4 + x ; where x is the innermost intersection (region 5 in my manner of labeling)
Simplifying now: 32 = 46 - 16 + x
32 = 30 + x
2 = x

NOTE: The error before is that we do not add double region 5. The formula only calls for it to be added once.
It was included 3 times with H, C, And F and then removed 3 times as we subtracted the two way intersections
(which the three way is part of) and so must be put back again once for inclusion, but not twice.

With x=2 we know that region 2 (players of H&C but not F) has 7-2=5 members
that region 4 (players of H&F but not C) has 5-2=3 members and
that region 6 (players of C&F but not H) has 4-2=2 members

So the sum of the members of Regions 2, 4, & 6 are 5+3+2=10

NOTE: A set up my venn and label the regions as shown here:
Image

Here are the results of my calculations.
Once I have the two. I fillin from the innermost region outwards,
subtracting as I go what I have already included so far.
In the end What's inside adds to 32 and meets the other conditions required.
Image

I don't think I missed anything. I hope this is a helpful resolution.

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by Tani » Fri Aug 05, 2011 6:33 am
When you are given 7 students that play hockey and cricket you don't know that those students don't also play football. The problem would have to say "hockey and cricket only" to exclude those students from playing football.

Therefore, from the total 7+5+4 = 16, you have to subtract the individual who played all three. that means there were 6 who played hockey and cricket ONLY, 3 who played cricket and football ONLY, and 4 who played hockey and football ONLY. Total 13.
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by pinchharmonic » Fri Aug 05, 2011 1:53 pm
Tani,

You mentioned a formula and explanation which I pasted below.

Does that mean your formula is actually

Gfh = those playing football and hockey, but maybe cricket too? You said yourself that when 7 students play hockey and cricket, you don't know that they also play football, but it's still in the formula.


There is a formula for dealing with this.
Gf + Gh + Gc - Gfh - Gfc - Ghc - 2(Gfhc) + None = Total

Where Gf = those playing football and Gfh = those playing both football and hockey, etc. You must subtract those individuals who play two sports because they are counted twice and subtract two times those individuals who play three sports because they are counted three times.

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by Tani » Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:31 pm
Yes, that is the original formula I used. It should give you the answer. You sum Gfh + Gfc + Ghc and subtract 3, representing the guy who is counted three times (once in each group).

You are right. When it says Gfh that only means those individual play both football and hockey. It does not rule out the possibility that they also play cricket.
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by pinchharmonic » Fri Aug 05, 2011 3:42 pm
Tani Wolff - Kaplan wrote:Yes, that is the original formula I used. It should give you the answer. You sum Gfh + Gfc + Ghc and subtract 3, representing the guy who is counted three times (once in each group).

You are right. When it says Gfh that only means those individual play both football and hockey. It does not rule out the possibility that they also play cricket.
re-doing question entirely,



- So you remove the people playing both sports, because for each mentioned they were counted twice earlier. You remove one set of them and now they were counted once properly

H + C + F - HC - HF -CF

- Now there are some people that played all 3 sports. But earlier, when you removed those playing Hockey/football for example, you also removed the guy playing 3 sports. Then when you did football/cricket, you again removed that guy playing 3 sports, and finally you did it one more time with cricket/hockey.

H + C + F - HC - HF - CF + 2(HFC) - 18 = 50

So in the end you subtracted the 3-sport person(s) 3x. so you have to add back 2* that number so you properly only removed those person(s) once.

There was confusion earlier because in one of the formulas it was -2*(fch) and another formula +2*fch
the latter being correct.

20 + 15 + 11 - 7 - 5 - 4 + 2(HFC) - 18 = 50
46 - 16 + 2(HFC) - 18 = 50
30 + 2(HFC) = 32
2(HFC) = 2
HFC = 1

then going backward

the double-sport people total is 7 + 5 + 4 = 16

but 7 includes the 3 sport person, so does 5 so does 4. and since we don't want him in our total we get 16 -3 = 13.