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Unlike the short flights

by deepakk » Mon Dec 09, 2013 9:13 am
Unlike the short flights of the shuttle and earlier spacecraft, which carried sufficient
power in fuel cells and batteries, a permanently orbiting space station will have to
generate its own electricity.
A. the short flights of the shuttle and earlier spacecraft, which carried sufficient power in
fuel cells and batteries
B. the shuttle and earlier spacecraft, with sufficient enough power in fuel cells and
batteries for their short flights
C. the short flights of the shuttle and earlier spacecraft, which enabled them to carry
sufficient enough power in fuel cells and batteries
D. the shuttle and earlier spacecraft, which were capable of carrying sufficient power in
fuel cells and batteries for their short flights
E. the flights of the shuttle and earlier spacecraft, whose shortness allowed them to carry
sufficient power in fuel cells and batteries

Please mention your approach also.
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by Mike@Magoosh » Mon Dec 09, 2013 3:03 pm
deepakk wrote:Unlike the short flights of the shuttle and earlier spacecraft, which carried sufficient
power in fuel cells and batteries, a permanently orbiting space station will have to
generate its own electricity.
A. the short flights of the shuttle and earlier spacecraft, which carried sufficient power in
fuel cells and batteries
B. the shuttle and earlier spacecraft, with sufficient enough power in fuel cells and
batteries for their short flights
C. the short flights of the shuttle and earlier spacecraft, which enabled them to carry
sufficient enough power in fuel cells and batteries
D. the shuttle and earlier spacecraft, which were capable of carrying sufficient power in
fuel cells and batteries for their short flights
E. the flights of the shuttle and earlier spacecraft, whose shortness allowed them to carry
sufficient power in fuel cells and batteries

Please mention your approach also.
Dear deepakk,

Here's a blog on comparisons you may find helpful:
https://magoosh.com/gmat/2012/gmat-sente ... omparison/

Think of it this way --- in this sentence, we have
Unlike X, a permanently orbiting space station will have ....
X has to be something that directly compares to a space station. This cannot be "the short flights" or "the flights" --- that's a faulty comparison. Choice (A) & (C) & (E) are out right away.

Choices (B) & (D) both make correct comparisons, spacecraft to spacecraft.
Choice (B) is an unholy abomination, a complete disaster. First of all, "sufficient enough" is 100% redundant, absolutely unacceptable on the GMAT. The entire "with" construction is a little informal and somewhat suspect in this context.
Choice (D) has an elegant "which" modifier instead. It is sophisticated and grammatically correct, the best answer here.

Does this make sense?
Mike :-)
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https://gmat.magoosh.com/
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by AnjaliOberoi » Thu Dec 19, 2013 8:06 pm
Unlike X, Y

Unlike X(shuttle and earlier spacecraft), Y(permanently orbiting space station)--- these wo things are being compared....hence A,C, E-- out.

B)usage of sufficeint enough indicates redundancy

So answer is D
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by theCodeToGMAT » Thu Dec 19, 2013 9:24 pm
{A} - INCORRECT; comparison issue "flights" is being compared "space station"
{B} - INCORRECT; "sufficient enough" is redundant;
{C} - INCORRECT; comparison issue "flights" is being compared "space station"
{D} - CORRECT
{E} - INCORRECT; comparison issue "flights" is being compared "space station"
R A H U L
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by Crystal W » Thu Jun 23, 2016 1:49 am
Mike@Magoosh wrote:
deepakk wrote:Unlike the short flights of the shuttle and earlier spacecraft, which carried sufficient
power in fuel cells and batteries, a permanently orbiting space station will have to
generate its own electricity.
A. the short flights of the shuttle and earlier spacecraft, which carried sufficient power in
fuel cells and batteries
B. the shuttle and earlier spacecraft, with sufficient enough power in fuel cells and
batteries for their short flights
C. the short flights of the shuttle and earlier spacecraft, which enabled them to carry
sufficient enough power in fuel cells and batteries
D. the shuttle and earlier spacecraft, which were capable of carrying sufficient power in
fuel cells and batteries for their short flights
E. the flights of the shuttle and earlier spacecraft, whose shortness allowed them to carry
sufficient power in fuel cells and batteries

Please mention your approach also.
Dear deepakk,

Here's a blog on comparisons you may find helpful:
https://magoosh.com/gmat/2012/gmat-sente ... omparison/

Think of it this way --- in this sentence, we have
Unlike X, a permanently orbiting space station will have ....
X has to be something that directly compares to a space station. This cannot be "the short flights" or "the flights" --- that's a faulty comparison. Choice (A) & (C) & (E) are out right away.

Choices (B) & (D) both make correct comparisons, spacecraft to spacecraft.
Choice (B) is an unholy abomination, a complete disaster. First of all, "sufficient enough" is 100% redundant, absolutely unacceptable on the GMAT. The entire "with" construction is a little informal and somewhat suspect in this context.
Choice (D) has an elegant "which" modifier instead. It is sophisticated and grammatically correct, the best answer here.

Does this make sense?
Mike :-)
Hi instructor, can you explain more you mentioned about with modifier in choice B. In choice B, I guess it is still has problems even if I cancel either sufficient or enough. I believe with modifier can modifies first part in the sentence or second part after "with modifier". Am I correct?
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by Mike@Magoosh » Thu Jun 23, 2016 9:38 am
Crystal W wrote:Hi instructor, can you explain more you mentioned about with modifier in choice B. In choice B, I guess it is still has problems even if I cancel either sufficient or enough. I believe with modifier can modifies first part in the sentence or second part after "with modifier". Am I correct?
Dear Crystal W,
I'm happy to respond. :-)

Choice (B) has multiple problems. Let's eliminate the word "sufficient" and focus on just the first part of the sentence:
Unlike the shuttle and earlier spacecraft, with enough power in fuel cells and batteries for their short flights, . . . .
This is tricky. There is something awkward an inelegant about the "with" construction here. This modifier clearly modifies the nouns before it: there is no ambiguity in the target noun. The problem is primarily one of rhetoric. Consider these two constructions, the first of which is identical to this version:

1) Unlike the shuttle and earlier spacecraft, with enough power in fuel cells and batteries for their short flights, . . . .
2) Unlike the shuttle and earlier spacecraft, which had enough power in fuel cells and batteries for their short flights, . . . .
The second version is a rhetorical success: it is concise yet clear. The tense of the verb allows us to refer to the location in time. This is the proper way to make a parenthetical comment. By contrast, #1 is awkward. The word "with" is vague and has a variety of meanings (with a shovel, with courage, with my friend, ...) In what sense were the spacecrafts "with" the power? Was it floating along side them, accompanying them? Of course, we know what is implied is that the power was part of their standard equipment. It would be fine to say:
3) Unlike the shuttle and earlier spacecraft, equipped with enough power in fuel cells and batteries for their short flights, . . . .
That's perfectly clear. Again, the tense of the participle gives us a sense of time, which version #1 lacks. Either #2 or #3 could be correct on the GMAT.
Version #1 is not clearly saying what it wants to say. It implies what it wants to say in a lily-livered way, but it doesn't come out directly and say it. There is no place in the business world for spineless equivocation. The reason the GMAT SC favors direct powerful language is because this is what convinces people and closes deals in the business world.

That's the problem with the "with" modifier. My friend, many students mistakenly believe that the GMAT SC is simply a test of grammar. In fact, grammar and logic and rhetoric are all equally important, and on the official SC questions there are many many examples of 100% grammatically correct answer choices that are still incorrect for other reasons.

Does all this make sense?
Mike :-)
Magoosh GMAT Instructor
https://gmat.magoosh.com/
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by Crystal W » Thu Jun 23, 2016 6:47 pm
Mike@Magoosh wrote:
Crystal W wrote:Hi instructor, can you explain more you mentioned about with modifier in choice B. In choice B, I guess it is still has problems even if I cancel either sufficient or enough. I believe with modifier can modifies first part in the sentence or second part after "with modifier". Am I correct?
Dear Crystal W,
I'm happy to respond. :-)

Choice (B) has multiple problems. Let's eliminate the word "sufficient" and focus on just the first part of the sentence:
Unlike the shuttle and earlier spacecraft, with enough power in fuel cells and batteries for their short flights, . . . .
This is tricky. There is something awkward an inelegant about the "with" construction here. This modifier clearly modifies the nouns before it: there is no ambiguity in the target noun. The problem is primarily one of rhetoric. Consider these two constructions, the first of which is identical to this version:

1) Unlike the shuttle and earlier spacecraft, with enough power in fuel cells and batteries for their short flights, . . . .
2) Unlike the shuttle and earlier spacecraft, which had enough power in fuel cells and batteries for their short flights, . . . .
The second version is a rhetorical success: it is concise yet clear. The tense of the verb allows us to refer to the location in time. This is the proper way to make a parenthetical comment. By contrast, #1 is awkward. The word "with" is vague and has a variety of meanings (with a shovel, with courage, with my friend, ...) In what sense were the spacecrafts "with" the power? Was it floating along side them, accompanying them? Of course, we know what is implied is that the power was part of their standard equipment. It would be fine to say:
3) Unlike the shuttle and earlier spacecraft, equipped with enough power in fuel cells and batteries for their short flights, . . . .
That's perfectly clear. Again, the tense of the participle gives us a sense of time, which version #1 lacks. Either #2 or #3 could be correct on the GMAT.
Version #1 is not clearly saying what it wants to say. It implies what it wants to say in a lily-livered way, but it doesn't come out directly and say it. There is no place in the business world for spineless equivocation. The reason the GMAT SC favors direct powerful language is because this is what convinces people and closes deals in the business world.

That's the problem with the "with" modifier. My friend, many students mistakenly believe that the GMAT SC is simply a test of grammar. In fact, grammar and logic and rhetoric are all equally important, and on the official SC questions there are many many examples of 100% grammatically correct answer choices that are still incorrect for other reasons.

Does all this make sense?
Mike :-)
Thank you for your reply! But I am a little confused about the tense you mentioned. I believe simple tense is good because the first part of the sentence describe s a fact and the second part use future tense because future tense can be used to express prediction. Am I correct? Also, according to your explanation, I think with modifier in choice B does not have serious mistakes but only choice D is better. Do I understand it right?
Thanks in advance!
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by Mike@Magoosh » Fri Jun 24, 2016 9:59 am
Crystal W wrote:Thank you for your reply! But I am a little confused about the tense you mentioned. I believe simple tense is good because the first part of the sentence describe s a fact and the second part use future tense because future tense can be used to express prediction. Am I correct? Also, according to your explanation, I think with modifier in choice B does not have serious mistakes but only choice D is better. Do I understand it right?
Thanks in advance!
Dear Crystal W,
I'm happy to respond. :-)

I mentioned tense because (A) & (D) included a verb with the simple past tense, and as you said, this allows us to see the relationship of what happened in the past to the prediction given in the future. Of course the simple past tense and simple future tense are perfectly fine here. The verb tenses are helpful giving us a sense of the entire sequence of events described here. I mentioned this, because choice (B), in using the "with" construction, did not use a verb at all in the first half of the sentence, and since there no verb, there's no tense to give us a sense of the location in time. This fact, in and of itself, does not make (B) automatically wrong, but right away, it's a kind of "-1" for this answer choice.

Here's what I would say about the "with" construction in (B) overall
1) grammatically, it is 100% correct
2) logically, it has an unambiguous target noun, but the exact meaning is left unclear
3) rhetorically, it is awful, a complete failure

All three of those strands are important to evaluate in any SC question. Choice (B) has serious problems: it just happens that none of these problems are grammar problems. Grammatically, it is fine. Logically, it raises red flags. Rhetorically, it's so bad that we should take it out back and shoot it. Just because an answer choice is grammatically OK doesn't mean that it is OK. Don't labor under the illusion that grammar is more important than the other two: if anything, grammar is the least important of those three. An answer choice with rhetorical problems has BIG problems, even if it is 100% grammatically correct.

Therefore, (B) is completely wrong, not even close, and choice (D) is the best answer.

Does all this make sense?
Mike :-)
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https://gmat.magoosh.com/
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by Crystal W » Fri Jun 24, 2016 6:33 pm
Mike@Magoosh wrote:
Crystal W wrote:Thank you for your reply! But I am a little confused about the tense you mentioned. I believe simple tense is good because the first part of the sentence describe s a fact and the second part use future tense because future tense can be used to express prediction. Am I correct? Also, according to your explanation, I think with modifier in choice B does not have serious mistakes but only choice D is better. Do I understand it right?
Thanks in advance!
Dear Crystal W,
I'm happy to respond. :-)

I mentioned tense because (A) & (D) included a verb with the simple past tense, and as you said, this allows us to see the relationship of what happened in the past to the prediction given in the future. Of course the simple past tense and simple future tense are perfectly fine here. The verb tenses are helpful giving us a sense of the entire sequence of events described here. I mentioned this, because choice (B), in using the "with" construction, did not use a verb at all in the first half of the sentence, and since there no verb, there's no tense to give us a sense of the location in time. This fact, in and of itself, does not make (B) automatically wrong, but right away, it's a kind of "-1" for this answer choice.

Here's what I would say about the "with" construction in (B) overall
1) grammatically, it is 100% correct
2) logically, it has an unambiguous target noun, but the exact meaning is left unclear
3) rhetorically, it is awful, a complete failure

All three of those strands are important to evaluate in any SC question. Choice (B) has serious problems: it just happens that none of these problems are grammar problems. Grammatically, it is fine. Logically, it raises red flags. Rhetorically, it's so bad that we should take it out back and shoot it. Just because an answer choice is grammatically OK doesn't mean that it is OK. Don't labor under the illusion that grammar is more important than the other two: if anything, grammar is the least important of those three. An answer choice with rhetorical problems has BIG problems, even if it is 100% grammatically correct.

Therefore, (B) is completely wrong, not even close, and choice (D) is the best answer.

Does all this make sense?
Mike :-)
It is clear, and thank you so much!
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