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Pronoun Issues with sentences-Experts Please Help

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by john.smith7844 » Sun Jun 27, 2010 8:42 pm
Hi,

I am not sure whether following sentences are correct? Please help me!!

a) John's barber quickly trimmed his hairs because he did not want to be late for the party.

I know here he cannot refer to John but can it refer to barber?


b) John's barber trimmed his hairs with his machine.

Is this pronoun reference correct? If not than what is the error?


c) John told Robert that he would get married soon.

Is this pronoun reference correct? If not than what is the error?


d) John awarded Robert discretionary powers enabling him to lead the team.

Is this pronoun reference correct? If not than what is the error?
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by viju9162 » Sun Jun 27, 2010 9:08 pm
Dear john.smith7844,

a) Is not John's barber a complete word here. This is the subject for the sentence. Possessive pronouns can only refer to possessive nouns.

In the first example, "his" will refer to John's barber. I am not sure he can refer to barber. Does the sentence mean John's barber trimmed his own hairs as he was getting late for the party ? Doesn't sound meaningful.

b) "his" refers to John's barber.

c) "he" is ambiguous here. It can either refer to John or Robert.

d) him can refer to either John or Robert.


I would love to see experts comments. Can learn more about possessive pronouns :)

Thanks,
Viju
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by hardik.jadeja » Sun Jun 27, 2010 11:46 pm
john.smith7844 wrote: a) John's barber quickly trimmed his hairs because he did not want to be late for the party.

I know here he cannot refer to John but can it refer to barber?
Nope it can't. The subject pronouns (eg: he, she, it) and object pronouns (eg: him, her, it) can't refer to a possessive noun (eg: John's barber). Barber is also a part of a possessive noun.
john.smith7844 wrote: b) John's barber trimmed his hairs with his machine.

Is this pronoun reference correct? If not than what is the error?
The above sentence is correct. A possessive pronoun(eg: his, her, it) can refer to both possessive nouns and non-possessive nouns. Let me give you examples.

Correct - Jose's room is so messy that his mother calls jose a pig.

In the above sentence his is a possessive pronoun and it refers to possessive noun Jose's room. This is allowed.

Correct - John and his sister are going for the picnic.

In the above sentence, possessive pronoun HIS refers to non-possessive noun JOHN. This is allowed.
john.smith7844 wrote: c) John told Robert that he would get married soon.

Is this pronoun reference correct? If not than what is the error?
The above sentence has pronoun ambiguity. HE in this sentence could refer to John or Robert. We are not sure who would get married. Every pronoun must clearly refer to only one antecedent.
john.smith7844 wrote: d) John awarded Robert discretionary powers enabling him to lead the team.

Is this pronoun reference correct? If not than what is the error?
This sentence has same pronoun ambiguity issue just like the previous one.

Hope that helps..
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by vbansal2010 » Mon Jun 28, 2010 12:53 am
Hi,

The rule of thumb for pronouns is:
"trace back in the sentence to the nearest possible noun, keepingin mind the plural/singular match with the pronoun in discussion and the gender."

e.g. for the sentence:
John told Robert that he would get married soon

The pronoun "he refers to Robert and not John"
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by sumanr84 » Mon Jun 28, 2010 12:56 am
d) John awarded Robert discretionary powers enabling him to lead the team.

I think this sentence is correct. The pronouns "me," "him," and "her" all are used as objects, and they cannot refer back to subject.
So, clearly in the above sentence HIM would refer to Robert.
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by hardik.jadeja » Mon Jun 28, 2010 1:00 am
vbansal2010 wrote:Hi,

The rule of thumb for pronouns is:
"trace back in the sentence to the nearest possible noun, keepingin mind the plural/singular match with the pronoun in discussion and the gender."

e.g. for the sentence:
John told Robert that he would get married soon

The pronoun "he refers to Robert and not John"
There is no such thumb rule. Specially not on GMAT. If your thumb rule is correct then the following sentence should also be correct.

Eva exercised daily with Jasmin so that SHE would stay in good shape.

By your thumb rule, SHE should refer to Jasmin, but in the above sentence pronoun SHE has two possible antecedents and thus it contains pronoun ambiguity. Such sentences are considered wrong on GMAT. Please refer MGMAT SC guide.
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by hardik.jadeja » Mon Jun 28, 2010 1:10 am
sumanr84 wrote:d) John awarded Robert discretionary powers enabling him to lead the team.

I think this sentence is correct. The pronouns "me," "him," and "her" all are used as objects, and they cannot refer back to subject.
So, clearly in the above sentence HIM would refer to Robert.
Are you 100% sure? I am not aware of any rule that says object pronouns can refer to only object nouns.
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by sumanr84 » Mon Jun 28, 2010 1:34 am
An objective personal pronoun indicates that the pronoun is acting as an object of a verb, compound verb, preposition, or infinitive phrase.The objective personal pronouns are: "me," "you," "her," "him," "it," "us," "you," and "them."

It can never refer back to subject. This is my own statement as I cannot think of a sentence where these pronouns are referring back to Subject. As the name only suggests, Object Pronoun, they can only be used for objects reference.

If anyone has some more thoughts, pls bring it here so that we can clear this doubt.
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by hardik.jadeja » Mon Jun 28, 2010 1:53 am
sumanr84 wrote:An objective personal pronoun indicates that the pronoun is acting as an object of a verb, compound verb, preposition, or infinitive phrase.The objective personal pronouns are: "me," "you," "her," "him," "it," "us," "you," and "them."

It can never refer back to subject. This is my own statement as I cannot think of a sentence where these pronouns are referring back to Subject. As the name only suggests, Object Pronoun, they can only be used for objects reference.

If anyone has some more thoughts, pls bring it here so that we can clear this doubt.
I believe they are called object pronouns because they act as an object, not because they refer to only object nouns. Let me give you an example from MGMAT SC Guide.

Researchers claim to have developed new "nano-papers" incorporating tiny cellulose fibres, which they allege give them the strength of cast iron.

The MGMAT SC Guide(4th Edition) says that both the pronouns (THEY and THEM) have ambiguous antecedents. Either pronoun could refer to researchers(subject) or "nano-papers"(object). Refer the following link.

https://books.google.co.in/books?id=No60 ... ng&f=false

Hope that helps..
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by lunarpower » Wed Jun 22, 2011 3:18 am
when you deal with pronouns, it's really important that you not over-complicate the issue. you can solve over 99% of pronoun issues by using the following method --

the BEST way to deal with pronouns:
1
* use your common sense -- and your understanding of the sentence -- to figure out what the pronoun SHOULD stand for (it should be a NOUN)

---- **if common sense cannot distinguish one meaning for the pronoun, then it's genuinely ambiguous.**
2
* go see whether that NOUN is in the sentence
3
* if it is there, check whether it matches in terms of singular/plural

this is it.

caveat:
whenever you deal with pronouns, be sure that the pronoun in question is not one of these exceptions:
https://www.beatthegmat.com/pronoun-ambi ... tml#312862

--
a) John's barber quickly trimmed his hairs because he did not want to be late for the party.

I know here he cannot refer to John but can it refer to barber?
yeah.
... BUT, the "rule" that you're worried about here is something you shouldn't worry about. DO NOT WORRY ABOUT POSSESSIVE VS. NON-POSSESSIVE PRONOUNS; this issue has been decisive in a grand total of 0 official problems, ever, and it has actually been removed from the most recent official guides.

b) John's barber trimmed his hairs with his machine.

Is this pronoun reference correct? If not than what is the error?
it's confusing -- if there are two of the same pronoun in some clause, then they should, ideally, both stand for the same thing. therefore, this is questionable, because the first "his" is meant to refer to john while the scond is meant to refer to the barber.

remember, you don't have to make these decisions by themselves! if you are unsure about whether something is ok, just look to see whether one of the OTHER choices is BETTER!


c) John told Robert that he would get married soon.

Is this pronoun reference correct? If not than what is the error?
there's no way to tell whether this pronoun refers to john or robert, so this one is genuinely ambiguous.


d) John awarded Robert discretionary powers enabling him to lead the team.

Is this pronoun reference correct? If not than what is the error?
in this context it's obvious that "him" is robert, so this one should be fine.
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