Estimated At vs Estimated To Be

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by lunarpower » Mon Aug 06, 2012 1:24 am
vk_vinayak wrote:=When Duma deputy Gennady Gudkov left Pushkin Square Monday night, the crowd -- estimated by the police at 14,000 -- was just starting to disperse.
this is legitimate, because "14,000" is a noun.

there's also this sentence from gmat prep. (the following is the non-underlined part, so there's no question about its legitimacy.)
With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Farenheit, ...
again, "degrees Fahrenheit" is a noun, so this is all dandy.

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regarding "estimated at" vs "estimated to be":

* "estimated at" can be followed by nouns, as in the examples above.

* "estimated to be" is generally legitimate when you could normally use a verb that is a form of "to be".
for instance, you can write I think that these ruins are 14,000 years old; note that "are" is a form of "to be".
therefore, the ruins were estimated to be 14,000 years old is also legitimate -- it's just another form of the same construction. in other words, "estimated to be" is not some special idiom.
Ron has been teaching various standardized tests for 20 years.

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by souvik101990 » Mon Aug 06, 2012 4:46 am
Rock samples taken from the remains of an asteroid about twice the size of the 6 mile wide asteroid that eradicated the dinosaurs has been dated to be 3.47 billion years old and thus is evidence of the earliest known asteroid impact on Earth

A ) Same

B) has been dated at 3.47 billion years old and thus

C) have been dated to be 3.47 billion years old and thus are

D) have been dated as being 3.47 billion years old and thus

E) have been dated at 3.47 billion years old and thus are


Normally experts say
estimated at should be followed by an noun
e.g: the temperature is estimated at negative five hundred degrees
and estimated to be should be followed by non nouns(such as adjectives)
e.g the fossil is estimated to be 500 years old
THEN WHY ARE WE CHOOSING E OVER C?
why would dated and estimated be polar opposites??

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by lunarpower » Mon Aug 06, 2012 4:53 am
souvik101990 wrote:Rock samples taken from the remains of an asteroid about twice the size of the 6 mile wide asteroid that eradicated the dinosaurs has been dated to be 3.47 billion years old and thus is evidence of the earliest known asteroid impact on Earth

A ) Same

B) has been dated at 3.47 billion years old and thus

C) have been dated to be 3.47 billion years old and thus are

D) have been dated as being 3.47 billion years old and thus

E) have been dated at 3.47 billion years old and thus are


Normally experts say
estimated at should be followed by an noun
e.g: the temperature is estimated at negative five hundred degrees
and estimated to be should be followed by non nouns(such as adjectives)
e.g the fossil is estimated to be 500 years old
THEN WHY ARE WE CHOOSING E OVER C?
why would dated and estimated be polar opposites??
i guess this is just a random idiomatic exception.

the good news is that the current incarnation of the gmat has largely moved away from testing pure idioms, especially when they have no effect on the surrounding grammar or context and when they aren't part of any larger construction (such as a parallel structure). therefore, the likelihood that you'll see something like this on your actual gmat exam is extremely low.
Ron has been teaching various standardized tests for 20 years.

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by vikram4689 » Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:56 am
lunarpower wrote:
souvik101990 wrote:Rock samples taken from the remains of an asteroid about twice the size of the 6 mile wide asteroid that eradicated the dinosaurs has been dated to be 3.47 billion years old and thus is evidence of the earliest known asteroid impact on Earth

A ) Same

B) has been dated at 3.47 billion years old and thus

C) have been dated to be 3.47 billion years old and thus are

D) have been dated as being 3.47 billion years old and thus

E) have been dated at 3.47 billion years old and thus are


Normally experts say
estimated at should be followed by an noun
e.g: the temperature is estimated at negative five hundred degrees
and estimated to be should be followed by non nouns(such as adjectives)
e.g the fossil is estimated to be 500 years old
THEN WHY ARE WE CHOOSING E OVER C?
why would dated and estimated be polar opposites??
i guess this is just a random idiomatic exception.

the good news is that the current incarnation of the gmat has largely moved away from testing pure idioms, especially when they have no effect on the surrounding grammar or context and when they aren't part of any larger construction (such as a parallel structure). therefore, the likelihood that you'll see something like this on your actual gmat exam is extremely low.
ron,
although this concept is purely based on idiomatic constructions, i am somewhat surprised to see idiomatic construction violating grammar rule:object of preposition must be noun/pronoun. am i missing something

similar point -OG12 #27- https://www.beatthegmat.com/estimated-at ... tml#458297
does it mean:
a)estimated at adjective - wrong ... used to eliminate an option in OG12 #27
b)dated at adjective - correct ... used in correct option OG12 #78
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by lunarpower » Mon Aug 06, 2012 10:16 pm
worse yet, this construction actually appears in two different correct answers in the 12th edition OG (#78 and #140), so it's no accident.

so, we're basically looking at an idiom that violates the usual rules. it happens sometimes, folks.
Ron has been teaching various standardized tests for 20 years.

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by souvik101990 » Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:45 am
Thanks for being so extremely prompt!
oh there you go with a non-redundant being
I feel sad for the word
:)
lunarpower wrote:
souvik101990 wrote:Rock samples taken from the remains of an asteroid about twice the size of the 6 mile wide asteroid that eradicated the dinosaurs has been dated to be 3.47 billion years old and thus is evidence of the earliest known asteroid impact on Earth

A ) Same

B) has been dated at 3.47 billion years old and thus

C) have been dated to be 3.47 billion years old and thus are

D) have been dated as being 3.47 billion years old and thus

E) have been dated at 3.47 billion years old and thus are


Normally experts say
estimated at should be followed by an noun
e.g: the temperature is estimated at negative five hundred degrees
and estimated to be should be followed by non nouns(such as adjectives)
e.g the fossil is estimated to be 500 years old
THEN WHY ARE WE CHOOSING E OVER C?
why would dated and estimated be polar opposites??
i guess this is just a random idiomatic exception.

the good news is that the current incarnation of the gmat has largely moved away from testing pure idioms, especially when they have no effect on the surrounding grammar or context and when they aren't part of any larger construction (such as a parallel structure). therefore, the likelihood that you'll see something like this on your actual gmat exam is extremely low.

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by vikram4689 » Sun Aug 26, 2012 3:01 am
One more question confirming to above discussion, OA:E
Historians claim that shards of an enormous Pelasgian urn discovered in Eastern Greece and estimated at 2,600 to 2,900 years old provide evidence of a flowering civilization that pre-dated and probably influenced Classical Greece.

(A) at 2,600 to 2,900 years old provide evidence of

(B) that it is 2,600 to 2,900 years old provides evidence of

(C) as being 2,600 to 2,900 years old provides evidence of what was

(D) as 2,600 to 2,900 years old provides evidence of what was

(E) to be 2,600 to 2,900 years old provide evidence of
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by lunarpower » Sun Aug 26, 2012 5:42 am
vikram4689 wrote:One more question confirming to above discussion, OA:E
that's a third-party question that is an obvious knockoff of the original OG problem, so it doesn't count as additional evidence.

the company that created that question has created a large number of SC questions by copying the exact structure of the OG sentences (including the answer choices) and simply changing the specific nouns and verbs to create "new" sentences.
such questions won't mislead, of course, but their value-added is zero if you've seen the OG problems.
Ron has been teaching various standardized tests for 20 years.

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