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policy aimed at decreasing operating costs !!

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policy aimed at decreasing operating costs !!

by concept » Sun Jun 06, 2010 7:28 am
policy aimed at decreasing operating costs - this is a phrase from an OG question.

I have read in a Ron's post that 'Preposition + verb + participle' formation is wrong unless it is preceded by a noun.

Fro me, 'aimed' is nothing but an adjective and hence the rule should apply here. But OG says that the formation is correct. Kindly clarify my doubt.
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by thephoenix » Sun Jun 06, 2010 8:54 am
IMO
at decreasing operating costs is a preposition +adj + noun formation
decreasing is an adj modifying noun operating...
so the rule stated by ron does not hold in this case..
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by concept » Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:35 am
thephoenix wrote:IMO
at decreasing operating costs is a preposition +adj + noun formation
decreasing is an adj modifying noun operating...
so the rule stated by ron does not hold in this case..
cant easily say Ron is wrong. Hoping he would come with a good explanation :)

Not just in Ron's post. I have also seen in a OG12 explanation which says that such a construct is wrong.
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by lunarpower » Tue Jun 08, 2010 2:38 pm
concept wrote:policy aimed at decreasing operating costs - this is a phrase from an OG question.

I have read in a Ron's post that 'Preposition + verb + participle' formation is wrong unless it is preceded by a noun.

Fro me, 'aimed' is nothing but an adjective and hence the rule should apply here. But OG says that the formation is correct. Kindly clarify my doubt.
i don't remember writing that, but i remember writing this (which is related -- maybe you've got it twisted):

you should be suspicious of PREPOSITION + NOUN + VERBing.
the grammatical interpretation of this construction is that the preposition applies to the noun, and "VERBing" is a modifier modifying the noun. therefore, if that interpretation is not correct in context (which it usually isn't, in gmat problems), this construction is wrong.
specifically, if the actual focus of the preposition (in context) is the VERBing, then this is incorrect.

for instance,
there is no proof of secret agents recording your calls
--> WRONG, since, in context, we're talking about proof of the recording, not proof of the secret agents.
according to the grammatical construction, this sentence means that we're looking for "proof of secret agents" (who happen to be recording calls).

but
i took a picture of the women posing in their costumes
--> CORRECT, since i actually did take a picture of the women (who happened to be posing in their costumes).

more here:
https://www.manhattangmat.com/forums/pos ... tml#p18293

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is this what you were thinking about?

if i really did write that somewhere, a link would be good. thx
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by lunarpower » Tue Jun 08, 2010 2:48 pm
thephoenix wrote:IMO
at decreasing operating costs is a preposition +adj + noun formation
it's not, actually.
in this context it's "preposition + gerund + object of gerund", because the policy's purpose is to decrease operating costs.

the frustrating part here is that exactly the same words can be either "preposition + gerund + object of gerund" or "preposition + participle (used as adjective) + noun". as in the case of many other such issues, you must rely on the context of the sentence to determine which one you are looking at.

for instance:

with the ultimate intention of increasing prices, the company introduced a new, more upscale-looking storefront.
--> preposition + gerund + object of gerund

as a result of increasing prices, many families are no longer able to purchase as many goods as they once could.
--> preposition + participle (used as adjective) + noun
Ron has been teaching various standardized tests for 20 years.

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by concept » Wed Jun 09, 2010 12:58 am
lunarpower wrote:
concept wrote:policy aimed at decreasing operating costs - this is a phrase from an OG question.

I have read in a Ron's post that 'Preposition + verb + participle' formation is wrong unless it is preceded by a noun.

Fro me, 'aimed' is nothing but an adjective and hence the rule should apply here. But OG says that the formation is correct. Kindly clarify my doubt.
i don't remember writing that, but i remember writing this (which is related -- maybe you've got it twisted):

you should be suspicious of PREPOSITION + NOUN + VERBing.
the grammatical interpretation of this construction is that the preposition applies to the noun, and "VERBing" is a modifier modifying the noun. therefore, if that interpretation is not correct in context (which it usually isn't, in gmat problems), this construction is wrong.
specifically, if the actual focus of the preposition (in context) is the VERBing, then this is incorrect.

for instance,
there is no proof of secret agents recording your calls
--> WRONG, since, in context, we're talking about proof of the recording, not proof of the secret agents.
according to the grammatical construction, this sentence means that we're looking for "proof of secret agents" (who happen to be recording calls).

but
i took a picture of the women posing in their costumes
--> CORRECT, since i actually did take a picture of the women (who happened to be posing in their costumes).

more here:
https://www.manhattangmat.com/forums/pos ... tml#p18293

--

is this what you were thinking about?

if i really did write that somewhere, a link would be good. thx
thanks Ron for the elaborate and clear reply.

Here is the link of your earlier post - https://www.manhattangmat.com/forums/pre ... t3407.html. I saw that you had said that you wont say that this can be a crisp rule or anything. After seeing the explanation I have got myself cleared.

Just 1 more thing. I am putting down what I perceive as correct/wrong usages of the 2 example sentences. please comment.

1. There is no proof of secret agents' recording of your calls[correct]
There is no proof that secret agents recored your call[correct]

2. I took a picture of the women's posing in their costumes [wrong]

thanks,
Last edited by concept on Wed Jun 09, 2010 1:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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by concept » Wed Jun 09, 2010 1:02 am
lunarpower wrote:
thephoenix wrote:IMO
at decreasing operating costs is a preposition +adj + noun formation
it's not, actually.
in this context it's "preposition + gerund + object of gerund", because the policy's purpose is to decrease operating costs.

the frustrating part here is that exactly the same words can be either "preposition + gerund + object of gerund" or "preposition + participle (used as adjective) + noun". as in the case of many other such issues, you must rely on the context of the sentence to determine which one you are looking at.

for instance:

with the ultimate intention of increasing prices, the company introduced a new, more upscale-looking storefront.
--> preposition + gerund + object of gerund

as a result of increasing prices, many families are no longer able to purchase as many goods as they once could.
--> preposition + participle (used as adjective) + noun
this part is a little trickier for me to nail. Out of the 2 usages, which is correct and which is wrong?
1. preposition + gerund + object of gerund
2. preposition + noun + participle

thanks,
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by lunarpower » Wed Jun 09, 2010 1:42 am
concept wrote:this part is a little trickier for me to nail. Out of the 2 usages, which is correct and which is wrong?
1. preposition + gerund + object of gerund
2. preposition + noun + participle

thanks,
hmm?

those are not alternatives; either of them could be appropriate, given a context in which it makes sense.

in fact, there is already a correct example of each of these constructions on this very thread:
1) with the ultimate intention of increasing prices, the company introduced a new, more upscale-looking storefront
2) i took a picture of the women posing in their costumes

it's a matter of whether the particular construction makes sense in the context at hand.
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by concept » Wed Jun 09, 2010 3:13 am
thanks for all the efforts Ron...It is great for usto get inputs from you and other experts here.

Just to make it clear, I was the one who mis-understood your post. Sorry for all the confusion.
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