Please explain how to draw the graph based on the infomation

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Source: — Data Sufficiency |

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by sana.noor » Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:52 pm
it should be E. statement one tells that x=y but gives no information what type of triangle it is i.e right triangle or equilateral and what is the value of x or y
statement two tells that two sides are same, so it is isosceles but we dont have values of x and y
together the two statements seems to be insufficient because the values of x &y could be 4,3,2
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by [email protected] » Thu Aug 22, 2013 11:55 pm
Hi sana.noor,

Based on the info in the prompt, we DO KNOW that the triangle is a RIGHT TRIANGLE. Draw some examples and you'll see. Knowing that it's a right triangle, what do you think when you combine statements?

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by [email protected] » Fri Aug 23, 2013 6:27 am
[email protected] wrote:Hi sana.noor,

Based on the info in the prompt, we DO KNOW that the triangle is a RIGHT TRIANGLE. Draw some examples and you'll see. Knowing that it's a right triangle, what do you think when you combine statements?

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I tried but cudnt draw!! Please help

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by sana.noor » Fri Aug 23, 2013 9:27 am
i dont think still we can find the area because we dont know exact values of x and y.
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by [email protected] » Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:24 am
Hi all,

I'm going to offer up a couple of hints so that you can redo this question:

Fact 1: x=y

Steps:
1) Pick a number for x and y
2) Plug them into the given info in the prompt
3) Graph the 3 points
4) Repeat with a different x and y

What do you notice about the two triangles that you've formed? Can you answer the question in the prompt?

Fact 2: Angle at (x,1) = angle at (5,y)

Since we have a right triangle, what SPECIFIC type of right triangle is the only right triangle that has two angles that are equal?

If you said 45/45/90, then you're correct.

With this info, can you answer the question in the prompt?

........
Combining Facts, what would you have to make x and y to end up with a 45/45/90 triangle? How many ways can that actually happen?

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by sana.noor » Fri Aug 23, 2013 8:25 pm
Angle at (x,1) = angle at (5,y)
it means x =5 and y=1 am i right?
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by [email protected] » Sat Aug 24, 2013 12:25 am
Hi sana.noor,

Using the numbers you chose, I want you to draw the picture. Ask yourself if those two angles are the same. If they are, then you have chosen correct values for x and y. If they are NOT, then you have NOT picked correct values for x and y (so pick a different set of values that makes the angles the same).

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by Brent@GMATPrepNow » Sat Aug 24, 2013 6:21 am
Had to remove my very incorrect post.

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Last edited by Brent@GMATPrepNow on Sat Aug 24, 2013 3:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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by [email protected] » Sat Aug 24, 2013 7:53 am
Thanks Brent for always making the concepts so clear!!



Brent@GMATPrepNow wrote:
[email protected] wrote:If the vertices of a triangle have coordinates (x,1), (5,1), and (5,y) where x<5 and y>1, what is the area of the triangle?
(1) x=y
(2) Angle at the vertex (x,1) is equal to angle at the vertex (5,y)
Target question: What is the area of the triangle?

Given: The vertices of a triangle have coordinates (x,1), (5,1), and (5,y)
Let's first examine the point (x,1)
This tells us that the y-coordinate is fixed at 1, but the x coordinate is not fixed.
So, the point (x, 1) can be anywhere on the green line (below)
Image

Likewise, the point (5, y) has its x-coordinate fixed at 5, but the y-coordinate can have many values.
So, the point (5, y) can be anywhere on the red line (below)
Image

Now let's add the point (5,1)
Image

Finally, we're told that x < 5 and y > 1.
So, the x-coordinate on the green line must be less than 5, and the y-coordinate on the red line must be less than 5.
Once we restrict the x- and y-coordinates, we can see that the points (x, 1) and (5, y) lie on the green and red lines respectively.
Image

Okay, now it's time to examine the statements . . .

Statement 1: x = y
It will help to take a look at all points such that the x- and y-coordinates are equal.
To do so, let's graph the line y = x (in purple below)
Image

Every point on the purple line satisfies the condition that x = y.
Since our the two remaining points of our triangle must also be on the green and red lines, we can see that these points must lie at the intersections of the purple lines and the green and red lines.
Image

As you can see, this creates ONE AND ONLY ONE triangle, which means there's only one possible area for the triangle. (Aside: We don't need to actually find this area. We need only determine that there can be only one area).
Since we can answer the target question with certainty, statement 1 is SUFFICIENT

Statement 2: The angle at the vertex (x,1) is equal to angle at the vertex (5,y)
All this tells us is that the two remaining angles in the right triangle must both equal 45 degrees.
So, there are many different ways that this can happen.
Image

As we can see, there are many possible triangles with different areas.
Since we cannot answer the target question with certainty, statement 2 is NOT SUFFICIENT

Answer = A

Cheers,
Brent

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by faraz_jeddah » Sat Aug 24, 2013 11:06 am
[email protected] wrote:Hi all,

I'm going to offer up a couple of hints so that you can redo this question:

Fact 1: x=y

Steps:
1) Pick a number for x and y
2) Plug them into the given info in the prompt
3) Graph the 3 points
4) Repeat with a different x and y

What do you notice about the two triangles that you've formed? Can you answer the question in the prompt?

Fact 2: Angle at (x,1) = angle at (5,y)

Since we have a right triangle, what SPECIFIC type of right triangle is the only right triangle that has two angles that are equal?

If you said 45/45/90, then you're correct.

With this info, can you answer the question in the prompt?

........
Combining Facts, what would you have to make x and y to end up with a 45/45/90 triangle? How many ways can that actually happen?

GMAT assassins aren't born, they're made,
Rich
Hi Rich,

I appreciate your hints and really helps us to think the right way. But what you are suggesting is that both statements are sufficient?
A good question also deserves a Thanks.

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by [email protected] » Sat Aug 24, 2013 2:51 pm
Hi faraz_jeddah & Brent et all,

I understand WHY Brent did things the way he did them, but I don't believe that he's interpreted the question correctly. The prompt uses inequalities to refer to the x and y (x < 5, y > 1), so I believe that these letters represent the variables in the co-ordinates and nothing else.

In Fact 1, we're told that x = y. We are NOT told that the line y = x is in the graph (As an aside, this is an atypical way to reference a line on the GMAT; there's no reference to the "co-ordinate plane" and usually lines are in y = "format"). Since the prompt references (x,1) and (5,y), I interpreted that x=y as a reference to these two CO-ORDINATES in these two points.

So, if x=y=2, then the co-ordinates are (2,1) and (5,2) and area of the triangle is 3/2
If x=y=3 then the co-ordinates are (3,1) and (5,3) and the area of the triangle is 2
Under these circumstances, Fact 1 is INSUFFICIENT.

In Fact 2, we're told that the two angles are equal, meaning that we're dealing with a 45/45/90 triangle

If x = 4 and y = 2, then we have (4,1) and (5,2), which is a 45/45/90 and the area is 1/2
If x = 3 and y = 3, then we have (3,1) and (5,3), which is a 45/45/90 and the area is 2
Under these circumstances, Fact 2 is iNSUFFICIENT

Combined, we need x=y and we need a 45/45/90. The only way that this happens is when:

x=y=3, which gives us (3,1) and (5,3) and a 45/45/90

Final Answer: C

Thankfully, this type of ambiguity is vetted out of most GMAT questions before they even appear in the testing pool.

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by Brent@GMATPrepNow » Sat Aug 24, 2013 2:58 pm
Arg - you're absolutely right, Rich.
I totally misinterpreted the whole x=y thing.

I've removed my post.

Cheers,
Brent
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