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medicare

by CrazyGmatter » Thu Apr 01, 2010 11:57 pm
Medicare, the United States government's health insurance
program for the elderly and disabled, covers the full cost of
home health care, but not with other nonhospital services
where 20 percent of the costs must be paid by beneficiaries.

A. but not with other nonhospital services where 20 percent of
the costs must be paid by beneficiaries.
B. but not of other nonhospital services, making beneficiaries
pay 20 percent of the costs.
C . but not of other nonhospital services, for which beneficiaries
must pay 20 percent of the costs.
D. which is unlike other nonhospital services in that 20 percent
of the costs must be paid by beneficiaries.
E. which is unlike other nonhospital services that make beneficiaries
pay 20 percent of the costs.
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by thephoenix » Fri Apr 02, 2010 12:15 am
IMO c
D ans E ----> incorrect usage of which

in B making is incorrect ( i dont exactly know why)

i guess C it is
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by rockeyb » Fri Apr 02, 2010 12:20 am
I will go for C below are the reasons why .

A. but not with other nonhospital services where 20 percent of the costs must be paid by beneficiaries.
[Where - needs to refer to an actual place , eliminate]
B. but not of other nonhospital services, making beneficiaries pay 20 percent of the costs.
[making beneficiaries pay - is modifying nonhospital services instead should modify Medicare OR US government ]
C . but not of other nonhospital services, for which beneficiaries must pay 20 percent of the costs.
[Correct ]
D. which is unlike other nonhospital services in that 20 percent of the costs must be paid by beneficiaries.
[WHICH refers to "home health care" and thus changes the meaning ]
E. which is unlike other nonhospital services that make beneficiaries pay 20 percent of the costs.
[WHICH refers to "home health care" and thus changes the meaning ]
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by samarpan_bschool » Fri Apr 02, 2010 12:30 am
rockeyb wrote:I will go for C below are the reasons why .

A. but not with other nonhospital services where 20 percent of the costs must be paid by beneficiaries.
[Where - needs to refer to an actual place , eliminate]
B. but not of other nonhospital services, making beneficiaries pay 20 percent of the costs.
[making beneficiaries pay - is modifying nonhospital services instead should modify Medicare OR US government ]
C . but not of other nonhospital services, for which beneficiaries must pay 20 percent of the costs.
[Correct ]
D. which is unlike other nonhospital services in that 20 percent of the costs must be paid by beneficiaries.
[WHICH refers to "home health care" and thus changes the meaning ]
E. which is unlike other nonhospital services that make beneficiaries pay 20 percent of the costs.
[WHICH refers to "home health care" and thus changes the meaning ]
@rockeyb - I dont think 'making ....' in option B modifier non-hospital services. It clearly modifies 'medicare'. (Quoting from OG12 answers).

However, the main difference between B & C is the meaning.

Option B says that 'other hon-hospital services cost 20% of the overall cost', but option C says that 'patients have to pay 20% of the other non-hospital services. This is the meaning the sentence wants to convey.

Do i make sense?
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by rockeyb » Fri Apr 02, 2010 12:35 am
@samarpan_bschool

If "making beneficiaries pay" is modifying MEDICARE . Then its a noun modifier and as per rule a noun modifier should touch the thing that it is modifying .

I dont see this happening.

Also if its an OG explanation then may be I have some thing to learn here .

But do you get my point here ?
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by samarpan_bschool » Fri Apr 02, 2010 12:40 am
rockeyb wrote:@samarpan_bschool

If "making beneficiaries pay" is modifying MEDICARE . Then its a noun modifier and as per rule a noun modifier should touch the thing that it is modifying .

I dont see this happening.

Also if its an OG explanation then may be I have some thing to learn here .

But do you get my point here ?
hi rockeyb - 'making...' is a present participle phrase. It does not modify the noun immediately preceding it (Exception: when a present participle is used as an adjective e.g. walking beauty), rather it talks about the whole preceding clause.

I have come across several sentences, atleast 3, in OG12 that clearly says that the present participle refers to the main subject. I dont have the OG with me right now. I will post the OG questions in a while...
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by rockeyb » Fri Apr 02, 2010 12:45 am
Hey Mate ,

U got me wrong . I am not concerned with only the word making instead "making beneficiaries pay 20 percent of the costs" is a complete noun phrase .

In fact its a simple gerund phrase .

So what is this complete phrase modifying should be a noun right ? If its a noun modifier .
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by samarpan_bschool » Fri Apr 02, 2010 12:50 am
nope, IMO it is not a gerund phrase, It is a 'present participle phrase' (participle modifier)

If you have OG12 with you, check for the SC question with key word : 'whales'
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by Shawshank » Fri Apr 02, 2010 12:54 am
rockeyb wrote:I will go for C below are the reasons why .

A. but not with other nonhospital services where 20 percent of the costs must be paid by beneficiaries.
[Where - needs to refer to an actual place , eliminate]
B. but not of other nonhospital services, making beneficiaries pay 20 percent of the costs.
[making beneficiaries pay - is modifying nonhospital services instead should modify Medicare OR US government ]
C . but not of other nonhospital services, for which beneficiaries must pay 20 percent of the costs.
[Correct ]
D. which is unlike other nonhospital services in that 20 percent of the costs must be paid by beneficiaries.
[WHICH refers to "home health care" and thus changes the meaning ]
E. which is unlike other nonhospital services that make beneficiaries pay 20 percent of the costs.
[WHICH refers to "home health care" and thus changes the meaning ]
Confused between C and E...

How does E change the meaning by the way ????
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by rockeyb » Fri Apr 02, 2010 1:17 am
Shawshank wrote:
rockeyb wrote:I will go for C below are the reasons why .

A. but not with other nonhospital services where 20 percent of the costs must be paid by beneficiaries.
[Where - needs to refer to an actual place , eliminate]
B. but not of other nonhospital services, making beneficiaries pay 20 percent of the costs.
[making beneficiaries pay - is modifying nonhospital services instead should modify Medicare OR US government ]
C . but not of other nonhospital services, for which beneficiaries must pay 20 percent of the costs.
[Correct ]
D. which is unlike other nonhospital services in that 20 percent of the costs must be paid by beneficiaries.
[WHICH refers to "home health care" and thus changes the meaning ]
E. which is unlike other nonhospital services that make beneficiaries pay 20 percent of the costs.
[WHICH refers to "home health care" and thus changes the meaning ]
Confused between C and E...

How does E change the meaning by the way ????
WHICH should refer to medicare and not "home health care" .
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by rockeyb » Fri Apr 02, 2010 1:25 am
samarpan_bschool wrote:nope, IMO it is not a gerund phrase, It is a 'present participle phrase' (participle modifier)

If you have OG12 with you, check for the SC question with key word : 'whales'
Is this the question u are talking about "The 32 species that make up the dolphin family are closely related to whale , which ca grow to be 30 feet long and is famous for its aggressive hunting pods "

If so what do you want me look at ?
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by samarpan_bschool » Fri Apr 02, 2010 2:19 am
yeah,

The 32 species that make up the dolphin family are closely related to whales and in fact include the animal known as the killer whale, which can grow to be 30 feet long and is famous for its aggressive hunting pods.

Option B: include the animal known as the killer whale, growing as big as 30 feet long and

OG Expn: Changing the verb to the participial growing introduces ambiguity, because it could refer back to the subject of the sentence (32 species) WRONG CHOICE

Another example is Q55- OG12.

IMO it is not a gerund phrase

Can some Experts throw more light on this? (How to differentiate between Gerund phrase and Present participial phrase) Thanks in advance..
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by rockeyb » Fri Apr 02, 2010 5:10 am
@samarpan_bschool ,

My friend you need to understand what OG is trying to tell you here.

The 32 species that make up the dolphin family are closely related to whales and in fact include the animal known as the killer whale, which can grow to be 30 feet long and is famous for its aggressive hunting pods.

(B)include the animal known as the killer whale, growing as big as 30 feet long and

GROWING here is ING form of the VERB - GROW . Such ING form of a verb is called as a GERUND .

Now OG says if you turn GROW to GROWING as it creates ambiguity . What dose OG mean here why is this ambiguous .

When you read the sentence are you sure to tell what is growing ? IS it the WHALE that is growing or 32 Species are growing what is growing ?

This is the ambiguity that OG is talking about .

This ambiguity is removed by putting a relative pronoun WHICH .

As per rule WHICH refers to the noun preceding it and in this case it is the WHALE .

So we can now be sure as to what is growing .

Now coming back to Gerund Phrase .

A phrase is a group of words that lack a subject .

Such a group of word when starting with a gerund that is -Ing form of verb is called as gerund phrase .

NOTE : Gerunds are nouns .

Ex : Tracking satellites accurately - is a gerund phrase .

Note : Tracking is the present participle form of the verb TRACK

Similarly in the above case : growing as big as 30 feet long

Is a Gerund phrase .

Now that you know what a gerund phrase is you need to what modifiers are , I would suggest you go through some books to understand what modifiers are and how they work .

I think thats a lot you may find my explanation not useful . Hey I am just trying to help if you have any issues let me know .
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by samarpan_bschool » Fri Apr 02, 2010 7:05 am
@rockeyb - Thanks for the detailed explanation. However i would still not agree with your logic.

I am very much aware of the difference between Gerund phrase and Present participle phrase.

Gerund phrase - acts as noun

Present participle phrase - acts as adjective

Infact both are ING form of a verb.

In the OG example 'growing as big as 30 feet long ..' is an adjective describing / qualifying 'the killer whale. So i would call it as Present participial phrase and NOT a greund phrase

Let me elaborate a bit...

Forming a democratic party in China is next to impossible. ---> Here the underlined part is gerund phrase acting as a noun

we sat at the party for half hour, talking about our college life. ---> Here the underlined part is a participial phrase as it relates with the subject 'We' and talks about the action of the previous clause. Though talking (ING + talk) is quite similar to a GERUND, it is NOT

My understanding is ING + verb can take three forms - Gerund, Participial, present continuous (Different forms depend on the usage in a sentence)

Talking about our example, i would say 'making' is ambiguous because it can refer either to 'Medicare' or 'non hospital services'.

Let me know if we have a disagreement here. At the end of the day a healthy discussion will help us both.
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by samarpan_bschool » Fri Apr 02, 2010 7:23 am
well, talking about 'Tracking satellites accurately' - you have mentioned this as gerund phrase. However, it depends on the usage.

They are tracking satellites accurately. ---> (are tracking is present continuous)
Tracking statellites accurately is the job of NASA monitor ----> (Tracking satellites accurately is a Gerund phrase)
NASA's monitoring devices in spacestation do a good job, tracking satellites acurately -----> (present participial phrase)


Again, do we have an agreement here?
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