Verb+ing

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Verb+ing

by rajatvmittal » Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:49 am
Despite forceful legal pleas for the restitution of expropriated cultural artifacts to the place of
their origin, the British Museum continues to rebuff the Greek authorities requesting that it should return the Parthenon marbles removed from the Acropolis by Lord Elgin in 1806.

(A) requesting that it should
(B) requesting them to
(C) and its request to
(D) who request that it
(E) who request them to

My question is on the use of verb+ing form i.e. requesting. Is it a modifier? If yes, what is it modifying? Present participle without comma is a noun modifier. At first glance, requesting seems to modify British museum. But, on a second thought that modifier is placed closed to the noun, 'greek authorities' seems a good bet.

I know the structure is ambiguous about who is requesting. But this sentence is structurally correct, in my view of course. So, could the experts shed some light on the rule i.e. in this structure, what does verb+ing modify - is it the noun in main subject or the noun that is placed closed to Verb+ing.

There are more examples that are not ambiguous and that use this structure:
I sent an honest report to the company and battalion commanders documenting the state of affairs.

In the above sentence, 'documenting' is a verb+ing. It seems to modify 'I"

Another one: I sent an honest report exposing the preceding officer's fraudulent reporting.
Again,the same position.[/u]
Source: — Sentence Correction |

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by confuse mind » Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:57 am
Rajat,

Please make it a practice to hide the answer using a spoiler, otherwise for someone attempting the question, the whole purpose is gne.

Thanks!

rajatvmittal wrote:Despite forceful legal pleas for the restitution of expropriated cultural artifacts to the place of
their origin, the British Museum continues to rebuff the Greek authorities requesting that it should return the Parthenon marbles removed from the Acropolis by Lord Elgin in 1806.

(A) requesting that it should
(B) requesting them to
(C) and its request to
(D) who request that it
(E) who request them to

My question is on the use of verb+ing form i.e. requesting. Is it a modifier? If yes, what is it modifying? Present participle without comma is a noun modifier. At first glance, requesting seems to modify British museum. But, on a second thought that modifier is placed closed to the noun, 'greek authorities' seems a good bet.

I know the structure is ambiguous about who is requesting. But this sentence is structurally correct, in my view of course. So, could the experts shed some light on the rule i.e. in this structure, what does verb+ing modify - is it the noun in main subject or the noun that is placed closed to Verb+ing.

There are more examples that are not ambiguous and that use this structure:
I sent an honest report to the company and battalion commanders documenting the state of affairs.

In the above sentence, 'documenting' is a verb+ing. It seems to modify 'I"

Another one: I sent an honest report exposing the preceding officer's fraudulent reporting.
Again,the same position.[/u]

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by confuse mind » Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:11 am
rajatvmittal wrote:Despite forceful legal pleas for the restitution of expropriated cultural artifacts to the place of
their origin, the British Museum continues to rebuff the Greek authorities requesting that it should return the Parthenon marbles removed from the Acropolis by Lord Elgin in 1806.

(A) requesting that it should
(B) requesting them to
(C) and its request to
(D) who request that it
(E) who request them to

My question is on the use of verb+ing form i.e. requesting. Is it a modifier? If yes, what is it modifying? Present participle without comma is a noun modifier. At first glance, requesting seems to modify British museum. But, on a second thought that modifier is placed closed to the noun, 'greek authorities' seems a good bet.

I know the structure is ambiguous about who is requesting. But this sentence is structurally correct, in my view of course. So, could the experts shed some light on the rule i.e. in this structure, what does verb+ing modify - is it the noun in main subject or the noun that is placed closed to Verb+ing.

There are more examples that are not ambiguous and that use this structure:
I sent an honest report to the company and battalion commanders documenting the state of affairs.

In the above sentence, 'documenting' is a verb+ing. It seems to modify 'I"

Another one: I sent an honest report exposing the preceding officer's fraudulent reporting.

Again,the same position.[/u]

In the initial question, the first 2 options act as an adverb and they modify the verb, contibue ans thus are wrong
(A) requesting that it should
(B) requesting them to



in the brown part - you say that the 2 sentences are unambiguous. I really doubt that. Experts?



Further, can you please tell the source of the question. Thanks!

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by Brian@VeritasPrep » Wed Aug 22, 2012 1:40 pm
Great discussion - and here's where the fact that there are answer choices can come in so handy. As intelligent people in the internet age, we've become remarkably good at interpreting poorly-worded sentences, so a lot of answers may sound okay because you can figure out what they're trying to say. But particularly in situations like these where the precise wording is ambiguous, the presence of answer choices that make the sentence exponentially clearer can be a huge asset for you.

With the initial question here, we have two "actors" who could both request. The British Museum and the Greek Authorities. And even if you don't see that ambiguity, the presence of the word "who" in D and E should tip you off that it's a possibility. Why are those answers written that way? When you see that D and E make it crystal clear that "request" refers to "authorities", then by virtue of that clarity you can better see the LACK of clarity with "requesting" in A and B.

The big takeaway - let the answer choices help you determine which decisions are important. You're not doing grammar on its own, you're using grammar to make distinct decisions.

________________________________________________________________

In your first example, "documenting" seems just as likely - if not more likely - to modify "commanders". Think of it this way - change the subjects but keep the same structure:

I photographed a team of filmmakers documenting the human experience.

Who's documenting the human experience? The photographer? The filmmakers?

The nice thing, again, is that GMAT Sentence Correction would give you four other options, so you can pit them against each other. If the only difference between your two finalist options is the placement of the modifier, then go back and check - is the modifier logical, and is the modifier clear?
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Chief Academic Officer
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by rajatvmittal » Thu Aug 23, 2012 7:38 am
Insightful! Brian, Thanks for sharing the thoughts.

Just one thing to clear: - What I have understood is that one should look at answers that are not ambiguous. Point taken. But in this GMAT world, meaning is the utmost important. So, in order to understand the meaning, one has to go by sentence structure first. So, I asked the question about the rule?
But again, what is the rule or is this just not acceptable in the GMAT?

thanks

Rajat

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by rajatvmittal » Fri Sep 14, 2012 11:04 am
In addition to above, I have found something very interesting today.

See this sentence: -

Among lower- paid workers, union members are less likely than non union members to be enrolled in lower- end insurance plans imposing stricter limits on medical services and requiring doctors to see more patients, and spend less time with each.
a)imposing stricter limits on medical services and requiring doctors to see more patients, and spend
b)imposing stricter limits on medical services, requiring doctors to see more patients, and spending
c)that impose stricter limits on medical services, require doctors to see more patients, and spend
d)that impose stricter limits on medical services and require doctors to see more patients, and spending
e)that impose stricter limits on medical services, requiring doctors to see more patients and spending

Source: - Brutal 70 SCs.

OA is D. Though I got it right in the first instance, but the use of imposing v/s that impose irritated me while making the choice.

This question made me think again the very fundamental question - use of modifiers. I started drawing the parallels between the above two sentences and ended up frustrating myself.

Please help!

thanks
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by lunarpower » Sun Sep 23, 2012 4:41 am
i received a private message about this thread.

in general, if there's no comma before an -ING type modifier, then it should refer to the noun in front of it. if that's not possible, then you should put the -ING as close as possible to the desired noun.
for instance:
there are three books about fashion design sitting on my table.
--> here, "sitting" describes "books". you may think this is wrong, because "sitting" is not directly next to "books", but think about it for a second -- that's as close as it's going to get. you can't split up "books about fashion design", so this is the best possible placement of the modifier.

on the other hand, in the example about the museum, the modifier is placed in the ideal location, right next to "greek authorities". it's obvious from context that the -ING is describing the greek authorities here, so that's optimal.
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by rajatvmittal » Sun Sep 23, 2012 9:22 am
Hi Ron

Thank you for clarifying the rule for 'with out comma + Ing modifier'.

But could you please explain why the answer that uses 'requesting' is wrong.

Is the use of 'should' inappropriate?

If the answer choices had an answer choice such as 'requesting it to', would that choice be acceptable?

thanks

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by rajatvmittal » Mon Sep 24, 2012 6:34 am
Hi Ron

I found a similar question in OG 10.
Refer this https://www.beatthegmat.com/demanded-it- ... 2140.html.

In the post you have answered the question that 'Demanding it to' is wrong because of unidiomatic expression. (hope the use of because of here is appropriate :)).

But can you please quote any problem from OG that actually permits to use the above expression.
(But can you please quote any problem from OG permitting such usage?)
thanks
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by lunarpower » Sun Oct 07, 2012 2:54 am
rajatvmittal wrote:But can you please quote any problem from OG that actually permits to use the above expression.
(But can you please quote any problem from OG permitting such usage?)
thanks
Rajat
"x demanded y to do z" is unidiomatic. that means that it's wrong.

you're not going to find an official problem that allows it, because, well, it's wrong!
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