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them vs those

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them vs those

by gmattarget700 » Sat Jul 04, 2009 10:36 pm
The players' helmets need to be repainted before (they/those) are used in Sunday's game.

which one would be correct: "they" or "those" and why?

thanks in advance[/i]
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by dumb.doofus » Sat Jul 04, 2009 10:58 pm
They seems perfectly fine here.. no issues.. those is plural of that.. would seem awkward here..

go with they...

if you are thinking that it may be refering to players, well, it is not referring to players at all.. there's only one subject here.. player's helmets.. they is a subject pronoun.. and is correctly referring back to helmets
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by real2008 » Sat Jul 04, 2009 11:02 pm
dumb.doofus wrote:They seems perfectly fine here.. no issues.. those is plural of that.. would seem awkward here..

go with they...

if you are thinking that it may be refering to players, well, it is not referring to players at all.. there's only one subject here.. player's helmets.. they is a subject pronoun.. and is correctly referring back to helmets
but isn't the word 'they' reserved for living beings?
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by dumb.doofus » Sat Jul 04, 2009 11:10 pm
real2008 wrote:
dumb.doofus wrote:They seems perfectly fine here.. no issues.. those is plural of that.. would seem awkward here..

go with they...

if you are thinking that it may be refering to players, well, it is not referring to players at all.. there's only one subject here.. player's helmets.. they is a subject pronoun.. and is correctly referring back to helmets
but isn't the word 'they' reserved for living beings?
Nope..

ex 1: Let the chips fall where they may..

ex 2: These rings, these broaches and pins, all have a life in them. They meant something to somebody, so many many years ago. They had personal value.
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by gmattarget700 » Sat Jul 04, 2009 11:30 pm
thanks...

but why not "those"? why cant "those" refer to antecedent "helmets"
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by gmattarget700 » Sun Jul 05, 2009 12:07 am
i was just browsing to find some answer and here is what I find:

... these/those are never used as a stand-alone pronoun without a noun following...

So, now I understand why "those" would be wrong.

But again, with above explanation, can I say confidently that below is correct?:

The players' helmets need to be repainted before those helmets are used in Sunday's game.
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by gmattarget700 » Sun Jul 05, 2009 6:14 pm
any suggestion?
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by goelmohit2002 » Sun Jul 05, 2009 9:50 pm
gmattarget700 wrote:i was just browsing to find some answer and here is what I find:

... these/those are never used as a stand-alone pronoun without a noun following...

So, now I understand why "those" would be wrong.

But again, with above explanation, can I say confidently that below is correct?:

The players' helmets need to be repainted before those helmets are used in Sunday's game.
Can you please point to the location where you found this rule ?
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by graghukalyan » Sun Jul 05, 2009 10:48 pm
gmattarget700 wrote:i was just browsing to find some answer and here is what I find:

... these/those are never used as a stand-alone pronoun without a noun following...

So, now I understand why "those" would be wrong.

But again, with above explanation, can I say confidently that below is correct?:

The players' helmets need to be repainted before those helmets are used in Sunday's game.
Hi,
I agree to the rule which you have quoted. But as per the example you have given, i am not sure whether the usage looks proper.
I feel the primary usage of pronouns (subject , object ...) is to ensure non-repetition of the words and refer back to the already mentioned nouns somewhere in the sentence.
So, in the sentence you mentioned above, using helmets defeats the purpose of usage of a pronouns.

As per the rule you mentioned, exmpls like these look appropriate ::
-> Those children have been playing outside all day.
->Those are yours.

Anybody pls correct me if I am wrong.
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by gmattarget700 » Mon Jul 06, 2009 12:50 am
goelmohit2002, I was referring above rule in MGMAT SC book (page 94).


graghukalyan,
I agree with your explanation but repetition is not always wrong, to bring consistency in the sentence, to adhere to grammar etc...and so, I still feel that below should be treated as correct sentence:

"The players' helmets need to be repainted before those helmets are used in Sunday's game."

What you say?
Any other view?
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by goelmohit2002 » Mon Jul 06, 2009 12:14 pm
Hi gmattarget700,

I looked in the OG for this rule...But it seems that either there is more to this rule or GMAT does not follow this rule.

Please see the following question#112 from OG-10. Here the answer is D. But IMO those is not following a noun. Please tell if I am missing something here or misinterpreting you.

==============================================

Domestic automobile manufacturers have invested millions of dollars into research to develop cars more gasoline-efficient even than presently on the road.
(A) into research to develop cars more gasoline-efficient even than presently on the road
(B) into research for developing even more gasoline-efficient cars on the road than at present
(C) for research for cars to be developed that are more gasoline-efficient even than presently the road
(D) in research to develop cars even more gasoline-efficient than those at present on the road
(E) in research for developing cars that are even more gasoline-efficient than presently on the road
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by hamxa » Fri Dec 11, 2009 8:51 am
gmattarget700 wrote:i was just browsing to find some answer and here is what I find:

... these/those are never used as a stand-alone pronoun without a noun following...

So, now I understand why "those" would be wrong.

But again, with above explanation, can I say confidently that below is correct?:

The players' helmets need to be repainted before those helmets are used in Sunday's game.

Please share a few examples illustrating this rule.

Thanks,
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by tanviet » Wed Dec 16, 2009 3:19 am
gmattarget700 wrote:The players' helmets need to be repainted before (they/those) are used in Sunday's game.

which one would be correct: "they" or "those" and why?

thanks in advance[/i]
great question. here is the answer.

"they"is used when latter subject is the same as previous subject. "they" is COREFERENT

"those" is used when the latter subject is different from previous subject."those" is SUBTITUTE

for example.

the persons learned gmat; they learned gmat very hard----the same persons, one group

the persons of the first batch learned gmat; those of the second batch learned gmat very hard---2 different groups

you can read grammar books for COREFERENCE AND SUBSTITUTION.But I think, do not read much. remember my explanation is enough for gmat

in OG10, the question " earthquark..." mentions this problem but the OG explanation is not clear.
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by hamxa » Wed Dec 16, 2009 4:09 am
thanks a lot, great explanation. :)
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