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Confused by "with"

by GMATplanet » Thu Aug 25, 2011 5:00 am

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The results of the company's cost-cutting measures are evident in its profits, which increased five percent during the first three months of this year after it fell over the last two years.

A. which increased five percent during the first three months of this year after it fell
B. which had increased five percent during the first three months of this year after it had fallen
C. which have increased five percent during the first three months of this year after falling
D. with a five percent increase during the first three months of this year after falling
E. with a five percent increase during the first three months of this year after having fallen

OA is C.

My question is why is "with" in D is wrong? Isn't "with ..." here modifying profits? Or it's modifying the whole sentence? How can you tell if it's the nearest noun or the whole clause that "with ..." modifies ?
Last edited by GMATplanet on Thu Aug 25, 2011 8:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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by GmatKiss » Thu Aug 25, 2011 5:12 am

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Please underline the part of the passage which needs to be corrected!

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by saketk » Thu Aug 25, 2011 8:07 am

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GMATplanet wrote:The results of the company's cost-cutting measures are evident in its profits, which increased five percent during the first three months of this year after it fell over the last two years.

A. which increased five percent during the first three months of this year after it fell
B. which had increased five percent during the first three months of this year after it had fallen
C. which have increased five percent during the first three months of this year after falling
D. with a five percent increase during the first three months of this year after falling
E. with a five percent increase during the first three months of this year after having fallen

OA is C.

My question is why is "with" in D is wrong? Isn't "with ..." here modifying profits? Or it's modifying the whole sentence? How can you tell if it's the nearest noun or the whole clause that "with ..." modifies ?
GmatKiss wrote:Please underline the part of the passage which needs to be corrected!

Regards,
GK
First for GK -- the underline post for you :)

The results of the company's cost-cutting measures are evident in its profits, which increased five percent during the first three months of this year after it fell over the last two years.

GMATplanet,
Hi -- This is because the use of word "with" does not present a reason. Instead, it gives an impression of additional information. Also -- "Profits" with a 5% increase" is incorrect. Since there is a comma -- we should use "Which" to correctly point towards "Profits"

Now, lets take a look at other option... A and B have "Subject Verb" agreement problem.. Profits is a plural and the use of Singular "IT" is incorrect.. Eliminate both options..

E -- seems wordy and awkward and like option D, option E contains "WITH" --

Therefore the correct answer is Option C

It correctly uses "Have" for plural "profits" and "Which" is correctly pointing to Profits...
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by GMATplanet » Thu Aug 25, 2011 9:32 am

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saketk wrote:
GMATplanet wrote:The results of the company's cost-cutting measures are evident in its profits, which increased five percent during the first three months of this year after it fell over the last two years.

A. which increased five percent during the first three months of this year after it fell
B. which had increased five percent during the first three months of this year after it had fallen
C. which have increased five percent during the first three months of this year after falling
D. with a five percent increase during the first three months of this year after falling
E. with a five percent increase during the first three months of this year after having fallen

OA is C.



OA is D

My question is why is "with" in D is wrong? Isn't "with ..." here modifying profits? Or it's modifying the whole sentence? How can you tell if it's the nearest noun or the whole clause that "with ..." modifies ?
GmatKiss wrote:Please underline the part of the passage which needs to be corrected!

Regards,
GK
First for GK -- the underline post for you :)

The results of the company's cost-cutting measures are evident in its profits, which increased five percent during the first three months of this year after it fell over the last two years.

GMATplanet,
Hi -- This is because the use of word "with" does not present a reason. Instead, it gives an impression of additional information. Also -- "Profits" with a 5% increase" is incorrect. Since there is a comma -- we should use "Which" to correctly point towards "Profits"

Now, lets take a look at other option... A and B have "Subject Verb" agreement problem.. Profits is a plural and the use of Singular "IT" is incorrect.. Eliminate both options..

E -- seems wordy and awkward and like option D, option E contains "WITH" --

Therefore the correct answer is Option C

It correctly uses "Have" for plural "profits" and "Which" is correctly pointing to Profits...

Hi, saketk,thanks for your explanation, I begin to understand your point. So ", with..." is an adverbial modifier? And hence it cannot modify profits. Is this understanding correct? then IS there any chance that a "with....,"or ", with..." construction will modifier modify a noun?

And as for the part "with" cannot present a reason, the example below seems to suggest the contrary.

Because of wireless service costs plummeting in the last year, and as mobile phones are increasingly common, many people now using their mobile phones to make calls across a wide region at night and on weekends, when numerous wireless companies provide unlimited airtime for a relatively small monthly fee.

A. Because of wireless service costs plummeting in the last year, and as mobile phones are increasingly common, many people
B. As the cost of wireless service plummeted in the last year and as mobile phones became increasingly common, many people
C. In the last year, with the cost of wireless service plummeting, and mobile phones have become increasingly common, there are many people
D. With the cost of wireless service plummeting in the last year and mobile phones becoming increasingly common, many people are
E. While the cost of wireless service has plummeted in the last year and mobile phones are increasingly common, many people are

The OA is D
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by GMATplanet » Thu Aug 25, 2011 9:51 am

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With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Fahrenheit, Jupiter's moon Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life, and with 60 square miles of water thought to be frozen from top to bottom.

A. Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life, and with
B. Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life, its
C. Europa has long been considered as far too cold to support life and has
D. Europa, long considered as far too cold to support life, and its
E. Europa, long considered to be far too cold to support life, and to have


Also this "with surface...." at the beginning functions as a reason, too.
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by saketk » Thu Aug 25, 2011 10:28 am

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GMATplanet wrote:With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Fahrenheit, Jupiter's moon Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life, and with 60 square miles of water thought to be frozen from top to bottom.

A. Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life, and with
B. Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life, its
C. Europa has long been considered as far too cold to support life and has
D. Europa, long considered as far too cold to support life, and its
E. Europa, long considered to be far too cold to support life, and to have


Also this "with surface...." at the beginning functions as a reason, too.
Well to start with this question.. the answer should be option B.. The use of With here is different from the one used in First question you posted. There 'with' was used after COMMA and should be replaced by 'Which' to correctly modify Profits (which after comma usually modifies the subject next to COMMA)... First we need to understand the meaning of the sentence before finding out the mistakes! Here 'with' is providing us the information about Jupiter's moon EUROPA.. So the usage is correct here..

Since I am not an expert-- I am somehow finding it difficult to explain you the full logic...

The takeaway can be to first read about the clause after COMMA and then see what is the best thing to choose.. all depends on the content and the meaning of the sentence.
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by saketk » Fri Aug 26, 2011 2:55 am

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https://www.manhattangmat.com/forums/mba ... t1196.html

Check this link for the usage of with

Dan walked enthusiastically out of his Official GMAT test with a large smile on his face

In this example provided in the MGMAT forum -- you can see the usage of "with"
Last edited by saketk on Fri Aug 26, 2011 3:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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by GMATGuruNY » Fri Aug 26, 2011 3:31 am

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GMATplanet wrote:The results of the company's cost-cutting measures are evident in its profits, which increased five percent during the first three months of this year after it fell over the last two years.

A. which increased five percent during the first three months of this year after it fell
B. which had increased five percent during the first three months of this year after it had fallen
C. which have increased five percent during the first three months of this year after falling
D. with a five percent increase during the first three months of this year after falling
E. with a five percent increase during the first three months of this year after having fallen

OA is C.

My question is why is "with" in D is wrong? Isn't "with ..." here modifying profits? Or it's modifying the whole sentence? How can you tell if it's the nearest noun or the whole clause that "with ..." modifies ?
In A and B, it (singular) seems to refer to profits (plural). Eliminate A.

In E, AFTER + HAVING + past participle (as in after having fallen) is an error of redundancy. On its own, after falling implies past action; having is unnecessary. Eliminate E.

In D, it is not clear who or what is falling: with a five percent increase...after falling. Answer choice C provides falling with a subject: WHICH have increased...after falling. Eliminate D.

The correct answer is C.

Generally, COMMA + WITH at the end of a sentence functions as an adverb modifying the preceding clause. But the meaning in D is confusing: the results are evident...with a five percent increase could imply that the RESULTS had a five percent increase. It must be clear what a modifier is modifying. Eliminate D.
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by tanviet » Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:09 am

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WHAT I want to say is that

verbless clause is prefered to stand before and so , closely, to the subject of the main clause. However this is not absolute requirement.

the similar situation is that
"consider X Y" is prefered over "consider X to be Y" . This means we choose the first if we have to choose between the 2.

however, "consider X to be Y" do exist in the correct answer in a question from gmatprep.

is my thinking correct? pls confirm Thank you.
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by tanviet » Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:28 am

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what I want to contribute is that

in the absolute phrase, "with Phrase" can or can not refer to a specific noun in the main clause.

I learn English, with his hand playing piano.

is correct sentence in which "with phrase" refers to no noun in the main clause. gmatprep has a question in which this pattern occurs. I am sure. if you want I will find it. it is about mobile phone.
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by tanviet » Fri Feb 01, 2013 7:48 am

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with phrase : WP

WP is used to modify a noun in this case WP can be preceded by comma

WP is used to modify a verb. 2 cases

WP modifies a verb to show How the verb is done.

WP in absolute phrase (do google search to know that is absolute phrase, do not read much) modifies verb by provide context for the main verb.

remember when WP modifies a verb there are only 2 cases.

gmat test us to differentiate the last 2 cases by changing the meaning relation from providing the context to HOw-verb-is done or vice versa.

Nearly two tons of nuclear-reactor fuel have already been put into orbit around the Earth, and the chances of a collision involving such material increase greatly as the amount of both space debris and satellites continue to rise.

(A) as the amount of both space debris and satellites continue to rise

(B) as the rise continues in both the amount of satellites and space debris

(C) as the amount of space debris and the number of satellites continue to rise

(D) with the continually increasing amount of space debris and the number of satellites

(E) with the amount of space debris continuing to increase along with the number of satellites

with in D and E is wrong because it is not in absolute phrase and so can not provide the context for main clause. with in d and e must show the method/means to the verb/action but this is not logic.

in contrast,
Because of wireless service costs plummeting in the last year, and as mobile phones are increasingly common, many people now using their mobile phones to make calls across a wide region at night and on weekends, when numerous wireless companies provide unlimited airtime for a relatively small monthly fee.

A. Because of wireless service costs plummeting in the last year, and as mobile phones are increasingly common, many people
B. As the cost of wireless service plummeted in the last year and as mobile phones became increasingly common, many people
C. In the last year, with the cost of wireless service plummeting, and mobile phones have become increasingly common, there are many people
D. With the cost of wireless service plummeting in the last year and mobile phones becoming increasingly common, many people are
E. While the cost of wireless service has plummeted in the last year and mobile phones are increasingly common, many people are

here with in d is in absolute phrase, which providec context for main clause. "with phrase" in absolute phrase may or may not refers to a specific noun in main clause. in the above problem, "with" dose not refer to any noun.

that is all we need for "with"

pls comment, modify my idea. Thank you

hope you are clear cristally.
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by Mission2012 » Wed Jul 24, 2013 11:00 am

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GMATGuruNY wrote:
GMATplanet wrote:The results of the company's cost-cutting measures are evident in its profits, which increased five percent during the first three months of this year after it fell over the last two years.

A. which increased five percent during the first three months of this year after it fell
B. which had increased five percent during the first three months of this year after it had fallen
C. which have increased five percent during the first three months of this year after falling
D. with a five percent increase during the first three months of this year after falling
E. with a five percent increase during the first three months of this year after having fallen

OA is C.



In A and B, it (singular) seems to refer to profits (plural). Eliminate A.

In E, AFTER + HAVING + past participle (as in after having fallen) is an error of redundancy. On its own, after falling implies past action; having is unnecessary. Eliminate E.

In D, it is not clear who or what is falling: with a five percent increase...after falling. Answer choice C provides falling with a subject: WHICH have increased...after falling. Eliminate D.

The correct answer is C.

Generally, COMMA + WITH at the end of a sentence functions as an adverb modifying the preceding clause. But the meaning in D is confusing: the results are evident...with a five percent increase could imply that the RESULTS had a five percent increase. It must be clear what a modifier is modifying. Eliminate D.
Is the issue with option A and B only that singular pronoun has antecedent 'profits'?
As per OG, there is also issue with sequencing of events. I believe "after" is correctly indicating the sequence of events in the sentence. There is no need for using perfect tense in this case.

Experts please help me clear this doubt
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by Needgmat » Sat Jun 18, 2016 9:10 am

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Generally, COMMA + WITH at the end of a sentence functions as an adverb modifying the preceding clause. But the meaning in D is confusing: the results are evident...with a five percent increase could imply that the RESULTS had a five percent increase. It must be clear what a modifier is modifying. Eliminate D.
[/quote]

Hi GMATGuruNY ,

Can you please give me some example, where COMMA+with is correctly used?

Thanks,

Kavin
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by hardwork » Tue Nov 01, 2016 6:35 am

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GMATGuruNY wrote:
GMATplanet wrote:The results of the company's cost-cutting measures are evident in its profits, which increased five percent during the first three months of this year after it fell over the last two years.

A. which increased five percent during the first three months of this year after it fell
B. which had increased five percent during the first three months of this year after it had fallen
C. which have increased five percent during the first three months of this year after falling
D. with a five percent increase during the first three months of this year after falling
E. with a five percent increase during the first three months of this year after having fallen

OA is C.


My question is why is "with" in D is wrong? Isn't "with ..." here modifying profits? Or it's modifying the whole sentence? How can you tell if it's the nearest noun or the whole clause that "with ..." modifies ?
In A and B, it (singular) seems to refer to profits (plural). Eliminate A.

In E, AFTER + HAVING + past participle (as in after having fallen) is an error of redundancy. On its own, after falling implies past action; having is unnecessary. Eliminate E.

In D, it is not clear who or what is falling: with a five percent increase...after falling. Answer choice C provides falling with a subject: WHICH have increased...after falling. Eliminate D.

The correct answer is C.

Generally, COMMA + WITH at the end of a sentence functions as an adverb modifying the preceding clause. But the meaning in D is confusing: the results are evident...with a five percent increase could imply that the RESULTS had a five percent increase. It must be clear what a modifier is modifying. Eliminate D.
Dear GMATGuruNY Sir! I am confused! Please help! As your said, "after falling..."clause has to find the subject of the preceding clause,such as which (refers to profits),but why not try to find the closest none?Because the "after+V-ing "is a verb-less clause,so the none should be closest? Thanks so so so much!
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