modifiers

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modifiers

by magnus opus » Fri Oct 08, 2010 11:15 am
QUERY 1

OG12 q.111
Construction of the Roman Colosseum, which was officially known as the Flavian Amphitheater, began in A.D. 69, during the reign of Vespasian, was completed a decade later, during the reign of Titus, who opened the Colosseum with a one-hundred-day cycle of religious pageants, gladiatorial games, and spectacles.

A. which was officially known as the Flavian Amphitheater, began in A.D. 69, during the reign of Vespasian,
B. officially known as the Flavian Amphitheater, begun in A.D. 69, during the reign of Vespasian, and
C. which was officially known as the Flavian Amphitheater, began in A.D. 69, during the reign of Vespasian, and
D. officially known as the Flavian Amphitheater and begun in A.D. 69, during the reign of Vespasian it
E. officially known as the Flavian Amphitheater, which was begun in A.D. 69, during the reign of Vespasian, and

In the explanation to this question on page742, for option D says(quoted verbatim),
There is no need to use the pronoun "it" as the subject of "was completed" because
"Roman Colosseum" (modified by phrases describing its name and the time it was begun ) already serves as the subject of the final verb. DOES THIS IMPLY THAT COLOSSEUM IS BEING CORRECTLY MODIFIED?

However in most cases(modifiers in parenthesis) we take the subject of prepositional phrase ( in this case "construction") to be qualified by the modifier, but the information in the parenthesis in the explanation clearly states that this is not the situation in the above case. How do we differentiate?
On the contrary;
Take the following example from Og 12- in the non underlined portion the modifier "....,the site" is placed after " pakistan" which is the object of the preposition "in" but it clearly modifies the subject instead "excavation" which is not the case in the question above,



QUERY2:
participal modifiers usually have a comma before them and refer to the entire preceding clause as their antecedent( as in the case of q47 og12 eagles question) or they take the subject of the previous clause as their antecedent to show either cause and effect or simultaneity of events. But in this case "enabling" is referring to "CIA" which is not the subject.
My main query is regarding the comma, which is missing in this case. DOES the lack of a comma make "enabling..." modifier OF "CIA". What is the grammatical reasoning behind this. Why can't it illogically modify discrestionary powers?
correct answer is A

186. By a vote of 9 to 0, the Supreme Court awarded the Central Intelligence Agency broad discretionary powers enabling it to withhold from the public the identities of its sources of intelligence information.

(A) enabling it to withhold from the public
(B) for it to withhold from the public
(C) for withholding disclosure to the public of
(D) that enable them to withhold from public disclosure
(E) that they can withhold public disclosure of
Last edited by magnus opus on Sat Oct 09, 2010 10:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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by niksworth » Sat Oct 09, 2010 12:51 am
Frankly, I could not understand your problems but let me try.

QUERY 1:

OG12 q.111
Construction of the Roman Colosseum, which was officially known as the Flavian Amphitheater, began in A.D. 69, during the reign of Vespasian, was completed a decade later, during the reign of Titus, who opened the Colosseum with a one-hundred-day cycle of religious pageants, gladiatorial games, and spectacles.

A. which was officially known as the Flavian Amphitheater, began in A.D. 69, during the reign of Vespasian,
B. officially known as the Flavian Amphitheater, begun in A.D. 69, during the reign of Vespasian, and
C. which was officially known as the Flavian Amphitheater, began in A.D. 69, during the reign of Vespasian, and
D. officially known as the Flavian Amphitheater and begun in A.D. 69, during the reign of Vespasian it
E. officially known as the Flavian Amphitheater, which was begun in A.D. 69, during the reign of Vespasian, and
magnus opus wrote:
In the explanation to this question on page742, for option D says(quoted verbatim),
There is no need to use the pronoun "it" as the subject of "was completed" because
"Roman Colosseum" (modified by phrases describing its name and the time it was begun ) already serves as the subject of the final verb.
First, what is the OE trying to say about option D?
- That it is unnecessary in D.

Why?
Look at the core of the sentence removing modifiers,
Construction...began...and was completed...

Construction clearly serves as the subject for both verbs. So, it is unnecessary.

Now, this is where the OE bungles up - In the explanation of D, it says that Roman Colosseum serves as the subject of the final verb (was completed) when OE in the general explanation before coming to answer choices explicitly states that "The main subject of the sentence is Construction, and it has two main verbs: began and was completed."

Yeah! GMAC can screw up too. Who knew!
magnus opus wrote:
DOES THIS IMPLY THAT COLOSSEUM IS BEING CORRECTLY MODIFIED?
In choice D, no. D has errors in modification as well.

D says - Construction of the Roman Colosseum, officially known as the Flavian Amphitheater and begun in A.D. 69, during the reign of Vespasian it was completed a decade later...

We have already talked about why it is unnecessary. We will ignore it and focus on the modification errors.

begun in AD 69 is joined to officially known as the Flavian Ampitheater through the coordinating conjunction and. So officially known as the Flavian Amphitheater and begun in A.D. 69 is a single modifier and has to modify the same thing. This leads to an error because the authors intention is that officially known as the Flavian Amphitheater should modify Roman Colosseum and begun in A.D. 69 should modify Construction.

Second, use of past participle form begun is incorrect. Simple past began is required.
magnus opus wrote:
However in most cases we take the subject of prepositional phrase ( in this case "construction") to be qualified by the modifier
Not necessarily. This comes directly from the sentence. We can have cascading prepositional phrases modifying one another and not the subject. A very good example is the question quoted by you.

Excavators at the Indus Valley site of Harappa in eastern Pakistan say...

Here,
Excavators - Subject.
at the Indus valley site - prepositional phrase modifying excavators
of Harappa - prepositional phrase modifying Indus valley site
in eastern Pakistan - prepositional phrase modifying Harappa
magnus opus wrote:
Take the following example from Og 12- in the non underlined portion the modifier "....,the site" is placed after " pakistan" which is the object of the preposition "in" but it clearly modifies the subject instead "excavation" which is not the case in the question above,
First, the site is placed before Pakistan.
Second, your modifications are not right. To see what the various prepositional phrases are modifying, look above.
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by niksworth » Sat Oct 09, 2010 1:16 am
QUERY 2:

186. By a vote of 9 to 0, the Supreme Court awarded the Central Intelligence Agency broad discretionary powers enabling it to withhold from the public the identities of its sources of intelligence information.

(A) enabling it to withhold from the public
(B) for it to withhold from the public
(C) for withholding disclosure to the public of
(D) that enable them to withhold from public disclosure
(E) that they can withhold public disclosure of
magnus opus wrote:
participal modifiers usually have a comma before them and refer to the entire preceding clause as their antecedent( as in the case of q47 og12 eagles question) or they take the subject of the previous clause as their antecedent to show either cause and effect or simultaneity of events.
Absolutely. Spot on.
magnus opus wrote:
But in this case "enabling" is referring to "CIA" which is not the subject.
No, enabling is modifying discretionary powers and not CIA.
magnus opus wrote:
My main query is regarding the comma, which is missing in this case. DOES the lack of a comma make "enabling..." modifier OF "CIA". What is the grammatical reasoning behind this. Why can't it illogically modify discrestionary powers?
As this is not a comma + ing modifier, it should not modify either the subject of the preceding clause or the clause as a whole. The participle enabling acts as an adjective and modifies the nearest noun which makes logical sense -discretionary powers.

You can understand the sentence in this way -
The Supreme Court awarded the CIA broad discretionary powers. These powers enabled the CIA to withhold from the public the identities of its sources of intelligence information.
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by ankurmit » Sat Oct 09, 2010 1:52 am
magnus opus

Can you post OA for both of these problems.
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by magnus opus » Sat Oct 09, 2010 10:10 am
@ niksworth

thanks for attempting to explain this in an orderly way.
However I would like to point out
- that when you talk about the O.G screwing up well you are not right on that front. In the general explanation the O.g merely defines what the correct (or intended) structure is. My question explicitly asks whether the modifier in D modifies colosseum(as suggested by the explanation in the parenthesis) rather than modify construction illogically, so that I can note it down as a possibility(takeaway-that such reference can be grammatically correct).
-and that when you give the example of a string of prepositional phrases in reference to my query regarding the same you fail to notice that my question is regarding modifier placed as parenthetical information (marked off by commas).
I am of the opinion that when you have sentence with the structure " X of/in/by/etc. y, modifier,..." then this modifier should refer to the subject of the prepositional phrase i.e X.

MY doubt again is - the og. repeatedly states a modifier and its antecedent should always touch, then howcome the above rule holds true.
If the above rule(X of y, modifier,) does in indeed hold true then what is the o.g telling us in option D of the collosseum question.

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by magnus opus » Sat Oct 09, 2010 10:19 am
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by niksworth » Sat Oct 09, 2010 11:07 am
Ok. Few points -

1. It is not necessary that in a construction like <X of Y, modifier> the modifier has to modify the subject X. Take an example -

The king of Tambora, a small island state south of Italy, feeds on the adulation of his subjects.

This sentence is perfectly grammatical and logical. Note that here, the modifier is modifying the object of preposition and not the subject of the sentence. This should clarify your principle doubt.

2. I still maintain the following -

The statement in OE - "Roman Colosseum" (modified by phrases describing its name and the time it was begun ) already serves as the subject of the final verb. is incorrect. I know that it is blasphemy to find errors in OG but while the OA can never be wrong, the OE has sometimes been found wanting.

A. Roman Colosseum does not serve as the subject of the final verb
B. The first part of the sentence has two modifiers - which was officially known as the Flavian Amphitheater modifies Roman Colosseum - This is an example where <X of Y, modifier> modifies Y and not X and is grammatically acceptable.
C. The other one - during the reign of Vespasian modifies the verb began and not Colosseum

3. Let us see if an expert can validate my rather bold claim regarding correctness of OE.
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by magnus opus » Sun Oct 10, 2010 12:57 am
@niksworth,

-first,can you confirm please the source of the sentence "The king of Tambora, a small island state south of Italy, feeds on the adulation of his subjects." so that we can conclude that there is no doubt regarding its veracity and that it is accepted by the the GMAT as grammatical.

-second, I'd like to mention again that other things are indeed at issue in D and I am not doubting that. The subject colosseum may indeed be incorrectly taking on the verbs, but that is not the contention. The query is simply regarding the explanation in the parenthesis. If it implies what i have pointed out above then, how do we judge what the modifier is modifying the object or the subject (of the prep. phrase).
Further, we do use logic to assign the correct referrant then doesn't this raise ambiguity (of logical and illogical modification)
How do we make the choice then?

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by lunarpower » Sun Oct 10, 2010 1:23 am
magnus opus wrote:QUERY2:
participal modifiers usually have a comma before them and refer to the entire preceding clause as their antecedent( as in the case of q47 og12 eagles question) or they take the subject of the previous clause as their antecedent to show either cause and effect or simultaneity of events. But in this case "enabling" is referring to "CIA" which is not the subject.
My main query is regarding the comma, which is missing in this case. DOES the lack of a comma make "enabling..." modifier OF "CIA". What is the grammatical reasoning behind this. Why can't it illogically modify discrestionary powers?
correct answer is A

186. By a vote of 9 to 0, the Supreme Court awarded the Central Intelligence Agency broad discretionary powers enabling it to withhold from the public the identities of its sources of intelligence information.

(A) enabling it to withhold from the public
(B) for it to withhold from the public
(C) for withholding disclosure to the public of
(D) that enable them to withhold from public disclosure
(E) that they can withhold public disclosure of
here, "enabling..." modifies the preceding noun "powers", as usual.

think about it:
when you ask "what is modified by this modifier?", what you're really asking is to fill in this blank:
"_____ enabled it (it = CIA) to withhold information from the public."

if you think that the modifier modifies CIA, then you're saying "the CIA enabled the CIA to withhold information from the public," which is illogical.

on the other hand, "these POWERS enabled the CIA to withhold information from the public" is logically correct -- and in accordance with the normal usage of these "no comma -ing" modifiers -- so all is well.
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by lunarpower » Sun Oct 10, 2010 1:31 am
magnus opus wrote:QUERY 1

OG12 q.111
Construction of the Roman Colosseum, which was officially known as the Flavian Amphitheater, began in A.D. 69, during the reign of Vespasian, was completed a decade later, during the reign of Titus, who opened the Colosseum with a one-hundred-day cycle of religious pageants, gladiatorial games, and spectacles.

A. which was officially known as the Flavian Amphitheater, began in A.D. 69, during the reign of Vespasian,
B. officially known as the Flavian Amphitheater, begun in A.D. 69, during the reign of Vespasian, and
C. which was officially known as the Flavian Amphitheater, began in A.D. 69, during the reign of Vespasian, and
D. officially known as the Flavian Amphitheater and begun in A.D. 69, during the reign of Vespasian it
E. officially known as the Flavian Amphitheater, which was begun in A.D. 69, during the reign of Vespasian, and
yeah, there are a couple of problems on which the OG answer key isn't any better than random words typed by a bunch of monkeys. this is one of those problems.

the main problem with the original sentence is that it ISN'T A SENTENCE.
let's take out inconsequential modifiers (by putting them in yellow) and see what's left:
Construction of the Roman Colosseum, which was officially known as the Flavian Amphitheater, began in A.D. 69, during the reign of Vespasian, was completed a decade later, during the reign of Titus, who opened the Colosseum with a one-hundred-day cycle of religious pageants, gladiatorial games, and spectacles.

... so you've got, basically,
SUBJECT VERB1 VERB2
that's not ok without some sort of conjunction (like "and") between those two verbs.

--

the same problem exists with (d) -- it's NOT A SENTENCE.
(d) says
Construction of the Roman Colosseum, officially known as the Flavian Amphitheater and begun in A.D. 69, during the reign of Vespasian it was completed a decade later, during the reign of Titus, who opened the Colosseum with a one-hundred-day cycle of religious pageants, gladiatorial games, and spectacles.

you can't do that.
this is like saying "My brother, he is a consultant" --> this is incorrect.

--

there's also another problem with (d):
the compound modifier "officially known as the Flavian Amphitheater and begun in A.D. 69"
this isn't properly parallel, since these 2 modifiers don't modify the same noun.
"known as the flavian amphitheater" modifies the roman colosseum, but "begun in AD 69" modifies the construction of the colosseum.
if you have MOD1 AND MOD2, then those two modifiers have to modify the same thing ... and these two don't. therefore, bad parallelism.
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by magnus opus » Sun Oct 10, 2010 2:10 am
lunarpower wrote:
there's also another problem with (d):
the compound modifier "officially known as the Flavian Amphitheater and begun in A.D. 69"
this isn't properly parallel, since these 2 modifiers don't modify the same noun.
"known as the flavian amphitheater" modifies the roman colosseum, but "begun in AD 69" modifies the construction of the colosseum.
if you have MOD1 AND MOD2, then those two modifiers have to modify the same thing ... and these two don't. therefore, bad parallelism.
Ron, so my question really is regarding only the modification of colosseum in D

let me rephrase

if we have a sentence " X of/in/by(preposition) Y, modifier" then I believe this modifier will always refer to X. I have not seen an official example where the modifier(set off by commas) modifies Y.


Look at this example.

Salt deposits and moisture threaten to destroy the Mohenjo-Daro excavation in Pakistan, the site of an ancient civilization that flourished at the same time as the civilizations in the Nile delta and the river valleys of the Tigris and Euphrates.
(A) that flourished at the same time as the civilizations
(B) that had flourished at the same time as had the civilizations
(C) that flourished at the same time those had
(D) flourishing at the same time as those did
(E) flourishing at the same time as those were

the modifier ",site..." modifies "excavation" and not just "pakistan".

So in you explanation above when you say that there are two subjects(one being colosseum (and not construction) for the parallel verbs, are you implying that in the struction "X of Y, modifier" it is possible that the modifier modifies Y? If yes please give some examples.

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by niksworth » Sun Oct 10, 2010 2:30 am
magnus opus wrote:@niksworth,

-first,can you confirm please the source of the sentence "The king of Tambora, a small island state south of Italy, feeds on the adulation of his subjects." so that we can conclude that there is no doubt regarding its veracity and that it is accepted by the the GMAT as grammatical.

-second, I'd like to mention again that other things are indeed at issue in D and I am not doubting that. The subject colosseum may indeed be incorrectly taking on the verbs, but that is not the contention. The query is simply regarding the explanation in the parenthesis. If it implies what i have pointed out above then, how do we judge what the modifier is modifying the object or the subject (of the prep. phrase).
Further, we do use logic to assign the correct referrant then doesn't this raise ambiguity (of logical and illogical modification)
How do we make the choice then?
1. I wrote the first example off the top of my head, so I cannot ask you to accept it at face value. Sorry. I have no doubt about the grammatical issue though. Perhaps Ron can validate if objects of prepositional phrases can be modified by parenthetical modifiers.

2. Logic plays a BIG role in GMAT and in writing in general. It is easy to get lost in the by lanes of grammatical scriptures and forget the big picture. There is no way that, in the example I mentioned, the modifier can modify the subject of the sentence.

Few examples (again made up)-

1. The climate of Burkina Faso, a landlocked country in West Africa, is primarily tropical.

Here the modifier a landlocked country in West Africa is clearly modifying Burkina Faso. This is a valid statement.

2. The climate of Burkina Faso, with two distinct seasons, is primarily tropical.

Here the modifier with two distinct seasons is clearly modifying climate. This is a valid statement.

3. The climate of Burkina Faso, famous for not being hospitable to Westerners, is primarily tropical.

Here we have an ambiguity. We cannot say for sure if the modifier famous for not being hospitable to Westerners is modifying the climate or the country Burkina Faso. So, this is not a valid statement.
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by lunarpower » Sun Oct 10, 2010 2:34 am
magnus opus wrote:let me rephrase

if we have a sentence " X of/in/by(preposition) Y, modifier" then I believe this modifier will always refer to X. I have not seen an official example where the modifier(set off by commas) modifies Y.
nah ... happens all the time

e.g.
og12 #103 (modifier modifies only "the world's social wasps", not "900 species of..."
og12 #43 (modifier contains a plural verb and so refers only to "four million people", not "population of...")

i found these two just glancing through the book ... i'm sure there are lots more.
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by sks74 » Wed Jul 10, 2013 12:50 am
Ron,
I have a question. The OA is C.
The correct answer will look like this
Construction of the Roman Colosseum,which was officially known as the Flavian Amphitheater, began in A.D. 69, during the reign of Vespasian, and was completed a decade later, during the reign of Titus, who opened the Colosseum with a one-hundred-day cycle of religious pageants, gladiatorial games, and spectacles.

Here if you eliminate the non-essential modifiers, the sentence will look like this -
Construction of the Roman Colosseum began in A.D. 69, and was completed a decade later.

we know "Construction of the Roman Colosseum" is the subject of the both the verb ("bagan" and "was completed")
As per the MGMT SC book ( ch -10), the comma after "69" is not required.

Am I missing something?

Thanks a lot,
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by lunarpower » Sat Jul 27, 2013 5:32 am
sks74 --

the commas belong to the modifier, not to the original sentence. when you take the modifier away, they disappear, and then you may or may not still have commas in the original sentence.
it could actually work either way. regardless of whether you start with xxxxx yyyyy or with xxxxx, yyyyy, the result of adding in a modifier with commas is xxxxx, modifier, yyyyy.

however...

MOST IMPORTANTLY,
Punctuation is not tested on this exam, so it's a waste of time to worry about this.
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