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SC : Like (Metaphorical ) Vs As (Expert plz reply)

by sunnyjohn » Wed Sep 07, 2011 1:38 am
Can someone put some lights on reasoning to solve these two questions?

1)During an ice age, the buildup of ice at the poles and the drop in water levels near the equator speed up the Earth's rotation, like a spinning figure skater whose speed increases when her arms are drawn in.

(A) like a spinning figure skater whose speed increases when her arms are drawn in
(B) like the increased speed of a figure skater when her arms are drawn in
(C) like a figure skater who increases speed while spinning with her arms drawn in
(D) just as a spinning figure skater who increases speed by drawing in her arms
(E) just as a spinning figure skater increases speed by drawing in her arms

2) More than thirty years ago Dr. Barbara McClintock, the Nobel Prize winner, reported that genes can "jump" as pearls moving mysteriously from one necklace to another.

(A) as pearls moving mysteriously from one necklace to another
(B) like pearls moving mysteriously from one necklace to another
(C) as pearls do that move mysteriously from one necklace to others
(D) like pearls do that move mysteriously from one necklace to others
(E) as do pearls that move mysteriously from one necklace to some other one
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by GmatKiss » Wed Sep 07, 2011 3:26 am
sunnyjohn wrote:Can someone put some lights on reasoning to solve these two questions?

1)During an ice age, the buildup of ice at the poles and the drop in water levels near the equator speed up the Earth's rotation, like a spinning figure skater whose speed increases when her arms are drawn in.

(A) like a spinning figure skater whose speed increases when her arms are drawn in
(B) like the increased speed of a figure skater when her arms are drawn in
(C) like a figure skater who increases speed while spinning with her arms drawn in
(D) just as a spinning figure skater who increases speed by drawing in her arms
(E) just as a spinning figure skater increases speed by drawing in her arms
2) More than thirty years ago Dr. Barbara McClintock, the Nobel Prize winner, reported that genes can "jump" as pearls moving mysteriously from one necklace to another.

(A) as pearls moving mysteriously from one necklace to another
(B) like pearls moving mysteriously from one necklace to another
(C) as pearls do that move mysteriously from one necklace to others
(D) like pearls do that move mysteriously from one necklace to others
(E) as do pearls that move mysteriously from one necklace to some other one
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by [email protected] » Wed Sep 07, 2011 2:40 pm
sunnyjohn wrote:Can someone put some lights on reasoning to solve these two questions?

1)During an ice age, the buildup of ice at the poles and the drop in water levels near the equator speed up the Earth's rotation, like a spinning figure skater whose speed increases when her arms are drawn in.

(A) like a spinning figure skater whose speed increases when her arms are drawn in
(B) like the increased speed of a figure skater when her arms are drawn in
(C) like a figure skater who increases speed while spinning with her arms drawn in
(D) just as a spinning figure skater who increases speed by drawing in her arms
(E) just as a spinning figure skater increases speed by drawing in her arms

2) More than thirty years ago Dr. Barbara McClintock, the Nobel Prize winner, reported that genes can "jump" as pearls moving mysteriously from one necklace to another.

(A) as pearls moving mysteriously from one necklace to another
(B) like pearls moving mysteriously from one necklace to another
(C) as pearls do that move mysteriously from one necklace to others
(D) like pearls do that move mysteriously from one necklace to others
(E) as do pearls that move mysteriously from one necklace to some other one
PLEASE HELP. I THINK BOTH SENTENCE ARE COMPARING ACTIONS (SPINNING AND JUMPING). SO WHY AS IS NOT USED IN THE SECOND ONE
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by Brian@VeritasPrep » Wed Sep 07, 2011 3:49 pm
Probably the biggest difference in #2 is that pearls DO NOT mysteriously move between necklaces. Accordingly, since the metaphor drawn in #2 does not actually happen, you can't use "as do...". You have to use "like" there (and you can't use "do" since they "don't").

In #1, figure skaters do do that, so "as" is appropriate...it does actually happen. And since the earth spins faster when it is heavier at its poles, as does a figure skater when her weight is distributed closer to her body, you can get away with "as" there.
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by kdraj » Wed Sep 07, 2011 7:24 pm
Brian@VeritasPrep wrote:Probably the biggest difference in #2 is that pearls DO NOT mysteriously move between necklaces. Accordingly, since the metaphor drawn in #2 does not actually happen, you can't use "as do...". You have to use "like" there (and you can't use "do" since they "don't").

In #1, figure skaters do do that, so "as" is appropriate...it does actually happen. And since the earth spins faster when it is heavier at its poles, as does a figure skater when her weight is distributed closer to her body, you can get away with "as" there.
Brian, could you please throw some light on the scenarios where Like/As is used ?

I only know that 'Like' is used to compare Nouns while 'As' is used to compare anything other than nouns.

eg. As ---> John like Mary was studious.
Like--> John is studious, as is Mary.
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by saketk » Thu Sep 08, 2011 12:26 pm
you can often construct the sentence EITHER with "like" OR with "as.". But, never use 'like' in the following cases --

John has a cat like Mary. -- Incorrect

you can re-write this sentence by placing like in front of the sentence.

John, like Mary, has a cat.

For more info - just google.. you will get tons and tons of examples :)
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by e-GMAT » Thu Sep 08, 2011 1:11 pm
@saketk is absolutely correct.

John has a cat like Mary. This is incorrect not because of idiomatic usage, but because it communicates ambiguous meaning.

Meaning 1 - John has a cat that is like Mary (Assuming Mary is the name of some other cat)
Meaning 2 - John has a cat & Mary has a cat. i.e
Like Mary, John has a cat. or
John, like Mary, has a cat.

I discussed the issue of "like" vs "as" at the post below.
https://www.beatthegmat.com/as-and-like- ... tml#404190

See if you can apply the framework discussed in this post on the two questions in discussion here. I will look forward to your analysis :)
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by sunnyjohn » Thu Sep 08, 2011 7:03 pm
e-GMAT wrote:@saketk is absolutely correct.

John has a cat like Mary. This is incorrect not because of idiomatic usage, but because it communicates ambiguous meaning.

Meaning 1 - John has a cat that is like Mary (Assuming Mary is the name of some other cat)
Meaning 2 - John has a cat & Mary has a cat. i.e
Like Mary, John has a cat. or
John, like Mary, has a cat.

I discussed the issue of "like" vs "as" at the post below.
https://www.beatthegmat.com/as-and-like- ... tml#404190

See if you can apply the framework discussed in this post on the two questions in discussion here. I will look forward to your analysis :)
Hi,

I read your analysis. Very interesting and helpful, but I am unable to apply it on second sentence. Below is my analysis.

1)During an ice age, the buildup of ice at the poles and the drop in water levels near the equator speed up the Earth's rotation, like a spinning figure skater whose speed increases when her arms are drawn in.

I can see this is a "COMPARISON".
X speed up Earth, as skater whose speed increases when Y.

(A) like a spinning figure skater whose speed increases when her arms are drawn in
LIKE + CLAUSE
(B) like the increased speed of a figure skater when her arms are drawn in
WRONG COMPARISON
(C) like a figure skater who increases speed while spinning with her arms drawn in
LIKE + CLAUSE
(D) just as a spinning figure skater who increases speed by drawing in her arms
(E) just as a spinning figure skater increases speed by drawing in her arms

-- D is fine but E is more precise as it removes "who" and keeps the meaning intact.

2) More than thirty years ago Dr. Barbara McClintock, the Nobel Prize winner, reported that genes can "jump" as pearls moving mysteriously from one necklace to another.

This is also a COMPARISON, but I am confuse whether "moving" is acting as verb or modifier.
genes can jump like pearls moving blah blah...
I thought that moving might be acting as verb because of adverb "mysteriously".

(A) as pearls moving mysteriously from one necklace to another
(B) like pearls moving mysteriously from one necklace to another
(E) as do pearls that move mysteriously from one necklace to some other one

How do I eliminate wrong option from A,B, and E?
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by e-GMAT » Fri Sep 09, 2011 6:28 am
More than thirty years ago Dr. Barbara McClintock, the Nobel Prize winner, reported that genes can "jump" as pearls moving mysteriously from one necklace to another.

Meaning - This sentence shows a comparison. The author intends to say that genes can jump in the same way pearls jump. Then he goes on explain how pearls move - moving mysteriously from one necklace to another.

Usage - Since the sentence states a comparison, we can either use Like + Noun or As + Clause. Either construction is fine here. The construction that is incorrect is - As + Noun since we are not stating a function in this sentence. we are not saying that genes play the role of pearls.

Answer choice Analysis:
(A) as pearls moving mysteriously from one necklace to another
Incorrect - cannot use "as" + noun here. NOTE that "moving mysteriously is not a verb. verb-ing cannot act as verb if it is not preceded by is/are/am/was/were. Here it is acting as verb-ing modifier and is modifying the closest noun - pearls.

(B) like pearls moving mysteriously from one necklace to another
Correct

(C) as pearls do that move mysteriously from one necklace to others
Incorrect - "as pearls do" is not problematic here. Here the issue is placement of "that move mysteriously..." Noun modifiers must be placed close to the noun that they modify. In this case this is interrupted by "do".

(D) like pearls do that move mysteriously from one necklace to others
Incorrect. Cannot have verb follow the noun after like. Or cannot have Like + Clause. Also, modifier placement issues as in choice C.

(E) as do pearls that move mysteriously from one necklace to some other one
Incorrect. This sentence distorts the meaning of the sentence. By using the modifier "that move" and verb "do" for pearls, it appears that pearls to two actions - pearls jump and by the way these pearls also move mysteriously...This is not the intended meaning. The author actually wants to say that genes jump like the pearls. And then he describes the manner in which these pearls jump - by moving mysteriously...

Hope this helps :)

Payal
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by e-GMAT » Fri Sep 09, 2011 6:52 am
sunnyjohn wrote: Hi,

I read your analysis. Very interesting and helpful, but I am unable to apply it on second sentence. Below is my analysis.

1)During an ice age, the buildup of ice at the poles and the drop in water levels near the equator speed up the Earth's rotation, like a spinning figure skater whose speed increases when her arms are drawn in.

I can see this is a "COMPARISON".
X speed up Earth, as skater whose speed increases when Y.
Yes this meaning is correct. :)
(A) like a spinning figure skater whose speed increases when her arms are drawn in
LIKE + CLAUSE
Are you saying that this sentence is wrong because here like is followed by a clause and that is not grammatically permissible? If yes, then your analysis is incorrect. Here like is followed by a noun and this noun is then followed by another clause starting with "whose". So as far as grammatical usage of "like" goes, it is correct. Note that if the construction was - Like Noun Verb, then this would be incorrect.

Now that being said, this sentence is still incorrect because it does not communicate logical meaning. It does not state the comparison as you specified in the meaning analysis. Here note that the sentence illogically compares build up of ice with the ice-staker. Ideally "earth" is comparable to "ice staker" since these are the two entities whose speed increases when something happens.

So this choice is incorrect because of illogical comparison.

Note that just using correct expression (like) is not enough. You should state logical comparison as well.

(B) like the increased speed of a figure skater when her arms are drawn in
WRONG COMPARISON
Yes this is correct.:)
(C) like a figure skater who increases speed while spinning with her arms drawn in
LIKE + CLAUSE
Same reasoning as choice A.
(D) just as a spinning figure skater who increases speed by drawing in her arms
(E) just as a spinning figure skater increases speed by drawing in her arms

-- D is fine but E is more precise as it removes "who" and keeps the meaning intact.
D is not fine here since D has the construction - just as NOUN. Note here again "who increases.." is a clause that modifies "skater". So skater by itself does not have a verb and hence what follows as is not a clause but a noun. So in this sentence "as" is used in its other role "function".

E is indeed correct. Here increases is the verb for the subject skater.

As you can see here , to solve this question we need to understand the meaning, know the correct usage of words to be able to express the meaning effectively, and then also know the construction of the sentence - i.e. we should be able to assign roles to each part of the sentence. what is SV pair, what is modifier, how many clauses, etc.

If you need a refresher on sentence structure, you may either search the web or try out the two basic concepts at e-gmat.com. The concepts on sentence structure are in the free trial of our sentence correction course.
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by sunnyjohn » Sat Sep 10, 2011 4:01 am
Thanks Payal... The explanation is just awesome..
e-GMAT wrote:
sunnyjohn wrote: Hi,

I read your analysis. Very interesting and helpful, but I am unable to apply it on second sentence. Below is my analysis.

1)During an ice age, the buildup of ice at the poles and the drop in water levels near the equator speed up the Earth's rotation, like a spinning figure skater whose speed increases when her arms are drawn in.

I can see this is a "COMPARISON".
X speed up Earth, as skater whose speed increases when Y.
Yes this meaning is correct. :)
(A) like a spinning figure skater whose speed increases when her arms are drawn in
LIKE + CLAUSE
Are you saying that this sentence is wrong because here like is followed by a clause and that is not grammatically permissible? If yes, then your analysis is incorrect. Here like is followed by a noun and this noun is then followed by another clause starting with "whose". So as far as grammatical usage of "like" goes, it is correct. Note that if the construction was - Like Noun Verb, then this would be incorrect.

Now that being said, this sentence is still incorrect because it does not communicate logical meaning. It does not state the comparison as you specified in the meaning analysis. Here note that the sentence illogically compares build up of ice with the ice-staker. Ideally "earth" is comparable to "ice staker" since these are the two entities whose speed increases when something happens.

So this choice is incorrect because of illogical comparison.

Note that just using correct expression (like) is not enough. You should state logical comparison as well.

(B) like the increased speed of a figure skater when her arms are drawn in
WRONG COMPARISON
Yes this is correct.:)
(C) like a figure skater who increases speed while spinning with her arms drawn in
LIKE + CLAUSE
Same reasoning as choice A.
(D) just as a spinning figure skater who increases speed by drawing in her arms
(E) just as a spinning figure skater increases speed by drawing in her arms

-- D is fine but E is more precise as it removes "who" and keeps the meaning intact.
D is not fine here since D has the construction - just as NOUN. Note here again "who increases.." is a clause that modifies "skater". So skater by itself does not have a verb and hence what follows as is not a clause but a noun. So in this sentence "as" is used in its other role "function".

E is indeed correct. Here increases is the verb for the subject skater.
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