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MGMAT:Howard Stern

by frank1 » Sun Oct 31, 2010 8:21 am
Though he had had success broadcasting his controversial radio program on highly regulated terrestrial airwaves, Howard Stern opted out of terrestrial broadcasting in favor of the less regulated satellite radio medium.
Though he had had
Though he has had
Even though he had
Having had
Having achieved

OA and confusion later.
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by shovan85 » Sun Oct 31, 2010 9:51 am
IMO C

I dont understand but most of the time I discard HAVING.
B is wrong usage HAS as it is a Past action.
A is wrong "had had" there is no Past event compared to the action "Howard Stern opted".
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by pesfunk » Sun Oct 31, 2010 4:53 pm
Even I fell for C but later refined my option to A

https://gmatclub.com/forum/howard-stern-mgmat-82346.html

Since there are 2 things happening in the past, a past perfect form is needed.
shovan85 wrote:IMO C

I dont understand but most of the time I discard HAVING.
B is wrong usage HAS as it is a Past action.
A is wrong "had had" there is no Past event compared to the action "Howard Stern opted".
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by frank1 » Mon Nov 01, 2010 4:28 am
Yup OA is A
I took this yesterday and fell into same Trap.

Now my question is in which cases is had had right or 'had had' used?
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by Shawshank » Mon Nov 01, 2010 4:55 am
frank1 wrote:Yup OA is A
I took this yesterday and fell into same Trap.

Now my question is in which cases is had had right or 'had had' used?
Statements which include "Had" in the sentence will be used with "HAd hAD" while representing past perfect.

In the problem above 2 past events

1) He had success
2) He opted out.

Since both events are in the past ... past participle needs to be used

Though he "had" (representing past participle) .. "had" (meaning achieved) success ....

Hope this helps
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by Geva@EconomistGMAT » Mon Nov 01, 2010 5:19 am
frank1 wrote:Yup OA is A
I took this yesterday and fell into same Trap.

Now my question is in which cases is had had right or 'had had' used?
Past perfect is structured as "HAD + V3", V3 being the perfect form of the verb: "had gone, had done, had been".


"had had" is no different than any other use of the past perfect:
the first "had is the past perfect "HAD".
the second "had" is the V3 form of the verb "have".
There really is no need to treat had had in any special way - it's the same as any case calling for past perfect. if the sentence includes a past action happening before another past action/state, the earlier action will be in past perfect form. If the earlier action happens to be one of "having", the result is "had had".

I am having breakfast - present
I had breakfast at 9:00 AM this morning - past simple
I had had breakfast every day, until I stopped on december 1st 1992. - past perfect.
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by tomada » Mon Nov 01, 2010 12:01 pm
If a past perfect form is needed because both things happened in the past, why is the past perfect form only used in the first half of the sentence, and not with "Stern opted out..." ?

pesfunk wrote:Even I fell for C but later refined my option to A

https://gmatclub.com/forum/howard-stern-mgmat-82346.html

Since there are 2 things happening in the past, a past perfect form is needed.
shovan85 wrote:IMO C

I dont understand but most of the time I discard HAVING.
B is wrong usage HAS as it is a Past action.
A is wrong "had had" there is no Past event compared to the action "Howard Stern opted".
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by Geva@EconomistGMAT » Mon Nov 01, 2010 2:35 pm
tomada wrote:If a past perfect form is needed because both things happened in the past, why is the past perfect form only used in the first half of the sentence, and not with "Stern opted out..." ?


]
[/quote]
ok, a bit more clarification on when to use past perfect: use it when you have two actions happening in the past, but one before the other.
The earlier action (the one happening first) will be in past perfect.
The later action (the one happening after) will be in past simple.

Think of past perfect as "the past of the past - something that happened before the past simple.

"By the time I reached the station, the train had already left."

There are two actions: the train leaving, and me arriving, and we need the past perfect to indicate the chronology: the train had left (p. perf) BEFORE I reached (p. simple) the station.

The same happens with Howard: he had had (p. perf) success before he opted (p. simple) out.
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by tomada » Mon Nov 01, 2010 3:14 pm
Thanks, Geva!
Geva Stern wrote:
tomada wrote:If a past perfect form is needed because both things happened in the past, why is the past perfect form only used in the first half of the sentence, and not with "Stern opted out..." ?


]
ok, a bit more clarification on when to use past perfect: use it when you have two actions happening in the past, but one before the other.
The earlier action (the one happening first) will be in past perfect.
The later action (the one happening after) will be in past simple.

Think of past perfect as "the past of the past - something that happened before the past simple.

"By the time I reached the station, the train had already left."

There are two actions: the train leaving, and me arriving, and we need the past perfect to indicate the chronology: the train had left (p. perf) BEFORE I reached (p. simple) the station.

The same happens with Howard: he had had (p. perf) success before he opted (p. simple) out.[/quote]
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by frank1 » Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:09 pm
Geva Stern wrote:
I am having breakfast - present
I had breakfast at 9:00 AM this morning - past simple
I had had breakfast every day, until I stopped on december 1st 1992. - past perfect.
Thanks
and just to be more clear in cases like these
what is difference between
I had his breakfast every day, until he stopped it on december 1st 1992
and
I had had his breakfast every day, until he stopped it on december 1st 1992

and in which case had had is compulsory and
can it be omitted(may be adding something) as we dont hear things like ...'had had...' in normal speaking...?

thanks
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by Geva@EconomistGMAT » Tue Nov 02, 2010 12:09 am
frank1 wrote:
Geva Stern wrote:
I am having breakfast - present
I had breakfast at 9:00 AM this morning - past simple
I had had breakfast every day, until I stopped on december 1st 1992. - past perfect.
Thanks
and just to be more clear in cases like these
what is difference between
I had his breakfast every day, until he stopped it on december 1st 1992
and
I had had his breakfast every day, until he stopped it on december 1st 1992

and in which case had had is compulsory and
can it be omitted(may be adding something) as we dont hear things like ...'had had...' in normal speaking...?

thanks
ahh, here comes the confusing part: both of these forms would be grammatically correct, with a slight difference in emphasis.

Past simple can also be use to describe a habitual action happening in the past (same as present simple does for regular habitual actions). Therefore, it won't be wrong to use past simple in this case.
Use the first version (past simple) if your emphasis is on the fact that the breakfast was had every day.
Use the second version (past perfect) if you want to emphasize the chronology - if your main point is that breakfast was had UNTIL something happened.

Because both forms are fine, the GMAT shouldn't put you on the spot and make you choose between them, but rather pit past perfect Vs. other tenses, or insert the mistake of having both verbs in past perfect "had had....had stopped" (playing on test-takers' tendency to compulsively use the same tense for everything).
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