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SC: tides of migration

by abcgmat » Thu Nov 03, 2011 3:09 pm
Of all the vast tides of migration that have swept through history, maybe none is more concentrated as the wave that brought 12 million immigrants onto American shores in little more than three decades.
A. maybe none is more concentrated as
B. it may be that none is more concentrated as
C. perhaps it is none that is more concentrated than
D. maybe it is none that was more concentrated than
E. perhaps none was more concentrated than

Can some one explain why is E better than C,
E saya none was more concentrated than the wave that...
it could mean that ' Now there is a tide which is more concentrated than the wave that brought...
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by sam2304 » Thu Nov 03, 2011 4:08 pm
it doesn't have a clear referent here So B C E can be eliminated. moreover simple past 'was' should be used as the non underlined part uses 'brought'.
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by satishchandra » Thu Nov 03, 2011 8:22 pm
abcgmat wrote:Can some one explain why is E better than C
E and C use correct idiom i.e. more.. than..

However C 1)changes the tense.
2)Awkward construction

Whereas E states the indended meaning with simle words/construction and importantly uses the correct tense.

General Note:The single word 'maybe' is almost always wrong in GMAT. Correct word to use is Perhaps.
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by bpdulog » Fri Nov 04, 2011 6:42 am
Went with E on this one just based on ear.
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by boltu_gmat » Fri Nov 04, 2011 6:55 am
E uses the correct idiom ..moreover E is in past tense(we are talking about two past events)
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by abcgmat » Fri Nov 04, 2011 3:52 pm
Can some one explain why c is wrong, we can think of it as place holder it.
Since the original sentence has 'is'.
It means we still donot have any other tide of migration greater than the one which brought 12 immigrants. E says was..which has the probability that we now have some migration that brought more immigrants than the the one which brought 12 million people, which changes the meaning of original sentence

We are comparing all the migration from past to present migration to one migration in past.
Since the bold part continues till present and is present in original sentence , C looks correct.
Can some one explain why C is wrong...why is 'is' usgae in C wrong...

C. perhaps it is none that is more concentrated than

Of all the vast tides of migration that have swept
through history, maybe none is more concentrated as
the wave that brought 12 million immigrants onto
American shores in little more than three decades.
(A) maybe none is more concentrated as
(B) it may be that none is more concentrated as
(C) perhaps it is none that is more concentrated
than
(D) maybe it is none that was more concentrated
than
(E) perhaps none was more concentrated than
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by satishchandra » Fri Nov 04, 2011 9:26 pm
abcgmat wrote:Can some one explain why c is wrong, we can think of it as place holder it.
Since the original sentence has 'is'.
Yup. It acts as place holder it. 'it' is not a big issue here in this case.
abcgmat wrote:Can some one explain why C is wrong...
'C' is primarily wrong beacuse of the usage i.e.it is none that is
If I ask you a question- Who has maximum dollars in your class?
Would you reply
(i) It is none that has as many dollars as I have.
(ii) None has as many dollars as I have

I think you obviously reply (ii)way as it is concise and avoids unnecessary awkward construction.
abcgmat wrote:why is 'is' usgae in C wrong...
usage of 'is' here is not wrong.
abcgmat wrote:It means we still donot have any other tide of migration greater than the one which brought 12 immigrants. E says was..which has the probability that we now have some migration that brought more immigrants than the the one which brought 12 million people, which changes the meaning of original sentence

We are comparing all the migration from past to present migration to one migration in past.
Since the bold part continues till present and is present in original sentence , C looks correct.
I agree with you. Tense is not a major issue here.
Of all the vast tides of migration that have swept through history
Usage of have indicates that sweeping activiy might still be there at present as well.
As you said, shifting from present to past changes the meaning slighlty.
If option C were perhaps none is more concentrated than, I would pick it.
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by abcgmat » Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:18 am
Hi Satishchandra,

Thanks a lot for the input, it was a detailed explanation (Thanks a ton)
I have read in few threads in which they say if you are stuck with two answer choices , choose the one which closely matches with the original , Though I agree C is wordy and E is not , but Since the original meaning is preserved in C, we should go with C
As in GMAT,wordiness is the last option to choose and meaning comes first...

Can we go with other options in which the meaning is changed but sentence is concise???
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by satishchandra » Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:49 am
abcgmat wrote: I have read in few threads in which they say if you are stuck with two answer choices , choose the one which closely matches with the original

100% Agreed
abcgmat wrote:As in GMAT,wordiness is the last option to choose and meaning comes first...

I think the orger of preferance for Gmac is:
Grammar>Meaning>Redundancy>Concision
abcgmat wrote:Can we go with other options in which the meaning is changed but sentence is concise???
No. I dont think so
abcgmat wrote:but Since the original meaning is preserved in C, we should go with C
I feel option 'C' is not gramaticlly so correct. That's why E.

I am also waiting for some expect to chip in and say whether/How 'C' is gramatically correct :)
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by patanjali.purpose » Sat Nov 05, 2011 6:30 am
abcgmat wrote:Of all the vast tides of migration that have swept through history, maybe none is more concentrated as the wave that brought 12 million immigrants onto American shores in little more than three decades.
C. perhaps it is none that is more concentrated than
E. perhaps none was more concentrated than
C - XX is more concentrated than YY (XX and YY should be both grammatically and logically parallel). In C both of XX and YY are logically parallel as we are comparing 'none of the waves' with "the wave that brought". But they are not grammatically parallel (not in the same form). XX is 'it is none that is' - Here XX is a clause while YY is a noun phrase ("the wave that...). Secondly, We have to ask whether IT is really required!. Moreover, use of WAS is appropriate as it compares all waves that swept (already action is complete).

Hope it helps
Last edited by patanjali.purpose on Sun Nov 06, 2011 2:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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by satishchandra » Sat Nov 05, 2011 11:23 pm
patanjali.purpose wrote: But they are not grammatically parallel (not in the same form). XX is 'it is none that is' - Here XX is a clause while YY is a noun phrase ("the wave that...). Secondly, We have to ask whether IT is really required!.
Good logic Patanjali. Makes sense.
patanjali.purpose wrote: Moreover, use of WAS is appropriate as it compares all waves that swept (already action is complete).
its not just "swept". It's "have swept"
Either the action is still continuing or its effect is still there.
The action may well continue in future too.
if I want to talk about today, I have to say possibly "none is more concentrated than XXX"
IMO Usage of 'is' won't be wrong. What do you think?
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by GMATGuruNY » Sun Nov 06, 2011 3:52 am
abcgmat wrote:Of all the vast tides of migration that have swept through history, maybe none is more concentrated as the wave that brought 12 million immigrants onto American shores in little more than three decades.
A. maybe none is more concentrated as
B. it may be that none is more concentrated as
C. perhaps it is none that is more concentrated than
D. maybe it is none that was more concentrated than
E. perhaps none was more concentrated than

Can some one explain why is E better than C,
E saya none was more concentrated than the wave that...
it could mean that ' Now there is a tide which is more concentrated than the wave that brought...
In A, B, C and D, there is no compelling reason to combine the present tense (is) with the past tense (brought). A guiding principle: stay in one tense unless a change in tense is required. Eliminate A, B, C and D.

The correct answer is E.

Another approach:
In B, C and D, the prepositional modifier of all the vast tides should be followed not by an expletive (it) but by the noun being modified (none): Of all the vast tides... NONE was more concentrated than the wave. Eliminate B, C and D.

In A, more...as is not idiomatic. Eliminate A.
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by lunarpower » Fri Nov 25, 2011 2:23 pm
abcgmat wrote:Hi Satishchandra,

Thanks a lot for the input, it was a detailed explanation (Thanks a ton)
I have read in few threads in which they say if you are stuck with two answer choices , choose the one which closely matches with the original , Though I agree C is wordy and E is not , but Since the original meaning is preserved in C, we should go with C
As in GMAT,wordiness is the last option to choose and meaning comes first...

Can we go with other options in which the meaning is changed but sentence is concise???
the issue here is not whether the sentence is "concise" -- the issue is that the present tense doesn't make sense in this context. if you are directly describing historical events, you have to use a verb tense that can properly refer to past events.
(by "directly" i mean as opposed to, say, discussing the implications of historical events on the present, or evaluating them from a present-day standpoint. in those kinds of contexts, the present tense could be quite reasonable.)

as for preserving the meaning of the sentence -- it's good to see that you're thinking about meaning. however, you still seem to be missing the main point: the sentence has to have a meaning that is reasonable and logical. if the original meaning of the sentence is nonsense, then not only can you change it, but you must actually change it.
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by abcgmat » Sat Nov 26, 2011 10:21 am
Of all the vast tides of migration that have swept through history, maybe none is more concentrated as the wave that brought 12 million immigrants onto American shores in little more than three decades.
A. maybe none is more concentrated as
B. it may be that none is more concentrated as
C. perhaps it is none that is more concentrated than
D. maybe it is none that was more concentrated than
E. perhaps none was more concentrated than

--Of all the vast tides of migration that have swept through history.

'have' in the sentence seems to indicate from past to present.

If it was only referring to past then the sentence could have been
--Of all the vast tides of migration that swept through history.

Though from Ron's explanation I get that the tides being discussed about are from past (history).
But the 'have' makes me still feel that they could talk about tides from past to present.
Can some explain what is wrong my understanding.
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by lunarpower » Sat Dec 10, 2011 6:12 pm
before commenting on the specifics here, i will note something i've noted in other locations on this forum as well: verb tense should be a VERY low priority on SC.
#1, it is very rarely tested alone -- i.e., almost every official problem with a verb-tense split also has other kinds of splits;
#2, verb tense is by far the hardest aspect of language (any language, not just english) for non-native speakers to learn.

so, make sure that you heed the following advice:
Don't study verb tense until you have MASTERED, 100%, the following areas:
parallelism
pronouns
subject-verb agreement
modifier placement
if you cannot find these types of errors 100% OF THE TIME, then do not bother with verb tense -- which is much less important than any of these topics -- until you can.

If you are at that point:
abcgmat wrote:'have' in the sentence seems to indicate from past to present.
"have swept" is written in the present perfect -- a tense that describes past actions, but from the standpoint of the present.
one of the functions of the present perfect is to emphasize (a) the fact that the events could reasonably repeat themselves, and/or (b) their continuing effect on the present.
for instance, Smith has won three chess tournaments implies that Smith could reasonably win more tournaments in the present. by contrast, Smith won three chess tournaments implies that it's all over, and that Smith can't win any more tournaments -- either because Smith doesn't play anymore, or because the tournaments are over, or whatever.

so, the present perfect is appropriate here, if the sentence wishes to (1) imply that there could reasonably be more waves of migration, or (2) emphasize the continuing impact that those waves have on today's world. at least the second of these is definitely happening in the sentence at hand.

here's a post, from another forum, with more information about the perfect tenses:
https://www.manhattangmat.com/forums/pos ... tml#p58397
If it was only referring to past then the sentence could have been
--Of all the vast tides of migration that swept through history.
this tense would be inappropriate, as it would imply that the phenomenon has ended -- i.e., that no more tides of migration will sweep through history.
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