Probability and 20 girls

This topic has expert replies
Legendary Member
Posts: 941
Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2009 12:28 am
Thanked: 20 times
Followed by:1 members

Probability and 20 girls

by bhumika.k.shah » Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:29 am
Twenty girls qualify for the girls' Baseball team. How many teams of 9 girls each
may be formed? For each team of 9 girls, in how many different ways can the 9
starting positions be assigned?

I seriously am blank as to how to start with the problem! :-(
Source: — Problem Solving |

User avatar
Legendary Member
Posts: 1560
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2009 2:38 am
Thanked: 137 times
Followed by:5 members

by thephoenix » Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:35 am
IS IT 20C9*9P1
Last edited by thephoenix on Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Legendary Member
Posts: 1275
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2006 11:13 pm
Location: Arabian Sea
Thanked: 125 times
Followed by:2 members

by ajith » Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:45 am
bhumika.k.shah wrote:Twenty girls qualify for the girls' Baseball team. How many teams of 9 girls each
may be formed? For each team of 9 girls, in how many different ways can the 9
starting positions be assigned?

I seriously am blank as to how to start with the problem! :-(
1. 20C9 ways

Selecting 9 gals from 20

2. It is 9! ways (I have no clue about baseball rules and positions)
Always borrow money from a pessimist, he doesn't expect to be paid back.

Legendary Member
Posts: 941
Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2009 12:28 am
Thanked: 20 times
Followed by:1 members

by bhumika.k.shah » Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:53 am
Is your answer either of the two ?

OR

better to ask whats ur final answer :-P
ajith wrote:
bhumika.k.shah wrote:Twenty girls qualify for the girls' Baseball team. How many teams of 9 girls each
may be formed? For each team of 9 girls, in how many different ways can the 9
starting positions be assigned?

I seriously am blank as to how to start with the problem! :-(
1. 20C9 ways

Selecting 9 gals from 20

2. It is 9! ways (I have no clue about baseball rules and positions)

User avatar
Legendary Member
Posts: 1275
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2006 11:13 pm
Location: Arabian Sea
Thanked: 125 times
Followed by:2 members

by ajith » Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:57 am
bhumika.k.shah wrote:Is your answer either of the two ?

OR

better to ask whats ur final answer :-P
ajith wrote:
bhumika.k.shah wrote:Twenty girls qualify for the girls' Baseball team. How many teams of 9 girls each
may be formed? For each team of 9 girls, in how many different ways can the 9
starting positions be assigned?

I seriously am blank as to how to start with the problem! :-(
1. 20C9 ways

Selecting 9 gals from 20

2. It is 9! ways (I have no clue about baseball rules and positions)
If you observe the Original Question, It has two Questions. If you wanna combine questions, you have to multiply my answers
Always borrow money from a pessimist, he doesn't expect to be paid back.

User avatar
GMAT Instructor
Posts: 3225
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 2:40 pm
Location: Toronto
Thanked: 1710 times
Followed by:614 members
GMAT Score:800

by Stuart@KaplanGMAT » Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:45 am
bhumika.k.shah wrote:Twenty girls qualify for the girls' Baseball team. How many teams of 9 girls each
may be formed? For each team of 9 girls, in how many different ways can the 9
starting positions be assigned?

I seriously am blank as to how to start with the problem! :-(
Let's look at this as 3 different questions:

1) how many different groups of 9 can be formed out of 20 people?

How to solve: use the combinations formula.

If you are choosing k items out of a group of n objects, there are n!/k!(n-k)! possible selections.

20C9 = 20!/9!11! (way too much math to appear on the actual GMAT other than in this form)

2) how many different ways can 9 people be arranged?

How to solve: use the simple permutations formula.

If you are arranging all the n members of a group, there are n! possible arrangements.

9! (too big a number to appear on the actual GMAT other than in this form)

3) how many different ways can we arrange 9 people out of a group of 20 people?

How to solve: use the permutations formula.

If you are arranging k members out of a group of n objects, there are n!/(n-k)! possible arrangements.

20P9 = 20!/(20-9)! = 20!/11! (way too much math to appear on the GMAT other than in this form)

* * *

For (3), we could also multiply the first two results:

20C9 * 9! = 20!/9!11! * 9! = 20!/11!

(since nPk = n!/(n-k)! and nCk = n!/k!(n-k)!, if we multiple nCk by k! we end up with the permutations formula).
Image

Stuart Kovinsky | Kaplan GMAT Faculty | Toronto

Kaplan Exclusive: The Official Test Day Experience | Ready to Take a Free Practice Test? | Kaplan/Beat the GMAT Member Discount
BTG100 for $100 off a full course

Legendary Member
Posts: 941
Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2009 12:28 am
Thanked: 20 times
Followed by:1 members

by bhumika.k.shah » Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:54 pm
Hi Stuart,
thanks for the brilliant explanation!
I just got stuck here, could you please explain me

(since nPk = n!/(n-k)! and nCk = n!/k!(n-k)!, if we multiple nCk by k! we end up with the permutations formula).[/quote]

User avatar
GMAT Instructor
Posts: 3225
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 2:40 pm
Location: Toronto
Thanked: 1710 times
Followed by:614 members
GMAT Score:800

by Stuart@KaplanGMAT » Wed Jan 27, 2010 8:06 pm
bhumika.k.shah wrote:Hi Stuart,
thanks for the brilliant explanation!
I just got stuck here, could you please explain me

(since nPk = n!/(n-k)! and nCk = n!/k!(n-k)!, if we multiple nCk by k! we end up with the permutations formula).
Hi,

that was just to demonstrate why both methods work.

When we look at combinations, order doesn't matter, so we factor out k! in order to eliminate duplicates.

When we look at permutations, order does matter, so there's no need to factor out k!.

The only difference between the two formulae is the k! in the denominator of the combinations formula. So, if we multiply the combinations formula by k!, we end up with the permutations formula.
Image

Stuart Kovinsky | Kaplan GMAT Faculty | Toronto

Kaplan Exclusive: The Official Test Day Experience | Ready to Take a Free Practice Test? | Kaplan/Beat the GMAT Member Discount
BTG100 for $100 off a full course