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understanding the structure

by patanjali.purpose » Sun Feb 26, 2012 5:05 am
Certain pesticides can become ineffective if used repeatedly in the same place; one reason is suggested by the finding that there are much larger populations of pesticide-degrading microbes in soils with a relatively long history of pesticide use than in soils that are free of such chemicals.

Above sentence is grammatically correct - I need some help in understanding the structure.

What is "if used repeatedly in the same place" - is it a modifier; if yes what kind of modifier and what does it modify?

Certain pesticides can become ineffective if used repeatedly in the same place - is it a IF..THEN clause? If no, why not? If yes, what is the subject of IF clause?
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by avik.ch » Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:34 am
Its an adverb of condition.

Certain pesticides can become ineffective if used repeatedly in the same place.

subject - Certain pesticides
can become - main verb ( linking verb)
ineffective - adjective predicate

if used repeatedly in the same place - adverb of condition.

Hope this helps !!
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by patanjali.purpose » Sun Feb 26, 2012 11:57 pm
avik.ch wrote:Its an adverb of condition.

Certain pesticides can become ineffective if used repeatedly in the same place.

subject - Certain pesticides
can become - main verb ( linking verb)
ineffective - adjective predicate

if used repeatedly in the same place - adverb of condition.

Hope this helps !!
Thanks Avik.

Could you give some more insight into 'adverb of condition' (will be great if you can provide examples as well).
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by avik.ch » Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:41 am
patanjali.purpose wrote:
Could you give some more insight into 'adverb of condition' (will be great if you can provide examples as well).
If-clause always introduce the adverb of condition - as it provide the necessary condition for the main verb to occur. Its quiet similar to other adverb clause.

Certain pesticides can become ineffective if used repeatedly in the same place.
If used repeatedly in the same place, certain pesticides can become ineffective. - this is more common construction.

refer : https://faculty.deanza.edu/flemingjohn/s ... yReader$17 ( the last example )


Hope this helps !!
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by patanjali.purpose » Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:57 am
avik.ch wrote:
patanjali.purpose wrote:
Could you give some more insight into 'adverb of condition' (will be great if you can provide examples as well).
If-clause always introduce the adverb of condition - as it provide the necessary condition for the main verb to occur. Its quiet similar to other adverb clause.

Certain pesticides can become ineffective if used repeatedly in the same place.
If used repeatedly in the same place, certain pesticides can become ineffective. - this is more common construction.

refer : https://faculty.deanza.edu/flemingjohn/s ... yReader$17 ( the last example )


Hope this helps !!
Great link.

Do you think, we can drop subject from the IF clause (there is no subject in "If used repeatedly in the same place" - but its implied).
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by avik.ch » Tue Feb 28, 2012 6:44 am
patanjali.purpose wrote:
Do you think, we can drop subject from the IF clause (there is no subject in "If used repeatedly in the same place" - but its implied).
Yes, We can.

refer this : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adverbial_clause
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by shekhar.kataria » Tue Feb 28, 2012 7:57 am
Hi Avik / Patanjali

what if i write the sentence in this way. Will it be correct.

Certain pesticides,if used repeatedly in the same place, can become ineffective; one reason is suggested by the finding that there are much larger populations of pesticide-degrading microbes in soils with a relatively long history of pesticide use than in soils that are free of such chemicals.

I am using "if used repeatedly in the same place" as an modifier.
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by avik.ch » Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:29 pm
shekhar.kataria wrote:Hi Avik / Patanjali

what if i write the sentence in this way. Will it be correct.

Certain pesticides,if used repeatedly in the same place, can become ineffective; one reason is suggested by the finding that there are much larger populations of pesticide-degrading microbes in soils with a relatively long history of pesticide use than in soils that are free of such chemicals.

I am using "if used repeatedly in the same place" as an modifier.
"Adverb" is also a modifier - it modifies an action.

I think this structure is right. As this is a non restrictive modifier,an adverb, - we can place it anywhere in the sentence. Please refer the example from Doing Grammar on non restrictive modifier :

https://www.beatthegmat.com/past-partici ... tml#453551

But, I dont know whether it is acceptable in GMAT or not.

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by pranshusingh » Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:24 am
Thanks avik gr8 link
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by patanjali.purpose » Wed Feb 29, 2012 4:43 pm
avik.ch wrote:
patanjali.purpose wrote:
Could you give some more insight into 'adverb of condition' (will be great if you can provide examples as well).
If-clause always introduce the adverb of condition - as it provide the necessary condition for the main verb to occur. Its quiet similar to other adverb clause.

Certain pesticides can become ineffective if used repeatedly in the same place.
If used repeatedly in the same place, certain pesticides can become ineffective. - this is more common construction.

refer : https://faculty.deanza.edu/flemingjohn/s ... yReader$17 ( the last example )


Hope this helps !!
Certain pesticides can become ineffective if used repeatedly in the same place.

IMO "if used repeatedly in the same place" is a modifier not a clause, that too a noun modifier.

Lets take another example (source: MGMAT):

Although covered in about 11 inches of snow, the runway was in acceptable condition during the emergency landing, according to aviation officials (correct sentence).

IMO "Although covered in about 11 inches of snow" is a noun modifier and therefore we need RUNWAY immediately after comma. From this, IMO "IF....USED" is a noun modifier.

But if the above sentence (ie "Although...snow") is correct, then why the sentence I mentioned in original post (ie "Certain pesticides can become ineffective if used repeatedly in the same place") is correct. If "IF...PLACE" is actually a noun modifier then sentence should have used "Certain pesticides,if used repeatedly in the same place, can become ineffective (sentence Shekhar mentioned).

Pls share your views.
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by avik.ch » Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:16 am
patanjali.purpose wrote: Certain pesticides can become ineffective if used repeatedly in the same place.

IMO "if used repeatedly in the same place" is a modifier not a clause, that too a noun modifier.
a non-essential noun modifier ( with comma) gives us extra information about the noun it modifies, If we remove this - the sentence won't have any effect from the meaning aspect. Moreover a noun modifier can also be a clause as for relative clauses.

Certain pesticides can become ineffective if used repeatedly in the same place
If used repeatedly in the same place, certain pesticides can become ineffective. - here if you remove the "if ..." the verb/action doesn't stand. It provides an information about the action - "become" -- how ? when ? why ?

from constituency :
certain pesticides --- subject
can become --- linking verb
ineffective --- adjective predicate

If used repeatedly in the same place :

------ used repeatedly --- this is the main verb (intransitive) from the sentence it is derived, but here this is a adjective. Since this is a adjective , it should refer a noun - so it refers to the implied subject i.e noun -- certain pesticides.
something like this :

Three senators reversed their vote on the controversial tax bill.
Three senators were prodded by public opinion.

In order to join these two sentences --

Three senators were prodded by public opinion. -- we delete the auxiliary verb and thus what remains is a past perfect , an adjective.

Prodded by public opinion, three senators reversed their vote on the controversial tax bill.

So "prodded" modifies "three senators".

------- in the same place - adverb of place

Since GMAT favors the modifier to be close to the noun it modifies -- this is more favorable than:
Three senators reversed their vote on the controversial tax bill,prodded by public opinion.

Refer this : https://www.beatthegmat.com/past-partici ... tml#453551

For solving SC in 1:30 min - its useful to look for adjective aka participle and see what makes sense with the subject :

Although covered in about 11 inches of snow, the runway was in acceptable condition during the emergency landing, according to aviation officials.

Here the other option may change "the runway" ... which will not make any sense with the adjective "covered".
But I think : "Although covered in about 11 inches of snow" is an adverb of condition.


Hope this clarifies all your doubt !!
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