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Kaplan - Subj Verb agreement

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crackgmat007: Legendary Member; Posts: 882; Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 2:57 pmFollowed by: 1 member; Thanked: 15 times; GMAT Score:690

by crackgmat007 » Mon Oct 26, 2009 1:07 pm

What is the pronoun (they/it) in the subordinate clause referring to? First appearance or First appearance of 40 poems (plural)

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Source: Beat The GMAT — Sentence Correction | Mon Oct 26, 2009 1:07 pm

Ludacrispat26: Master | Next Rank: 500 Posts; Posts: 113; Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2009 10:51 am; Thanked: 10 times; GMAT Score:690

Re: Kaplan - Subj Verb agreement

by Ludacrispat26 » Mon Oct 26, 2009 1:20 pm

crackgmat007 wrote:What is the pronoun (they/it) in the subordinate clause referring to? First appearance or First appearance of 40 poems (plural)

I know this is semi-irrelevant, but is the first part of the sentence not grammatically incorrect? Is "them" modifying "appearance"?

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crackgmat007: Legendary Member; Posts: 882; Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 2:57 pmFollowed by: 1 member; Thanked: 15 times; GMAT Score:690

Re: Kaplan - Subj Verb agreement

by crackgmat007 » Mon Oct 26, 2009 1:30 pm

Ludacrispat26 wrote:
crackgmat007 wrote:What is the pronoun (they/it) in the subordinate clause referring to? First appearance or First appearance of 40 poems (plural)
I know this is semi-irrelevant, but is the first part of the sentence not grammatically incorrect? Is "them" modifying "appearance"?

I guess THEM must be refering to 'appearance of 40 poems'. But the verb following appearance (is) is singular. This sentence is so confusing.

Thoughts guys?

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crackthetest: Senior | Next Rank: 100 Posts; Posts: 40; Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2009 8:50 pm; Thanked: 3 times

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by crackthetest » Mon Oct 26, 2009 3:18 pm

" The first appearance " is singular and rightly referred by "is".

40 poems is plural and that is what "they" refers, "it" can't be used here.

"that were engaged in by this great Modernist" - seems wrong conotation.

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Testluv: GMAT Instructor; Posts: 1302; Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 2:13 pmFollowed by: 164 members; Location: Toronto; Thanked: 539 times; GMAT Score:800

by Testluv » Mon Oct 26, 2009 4:29 pm

Hi!

For ludacrispat26: yes, the first half of the sentence is a bit confusing but not if you recognize the speaker's intended meaning. "them" does seem, technically, to be referring to "first appearance" but obviously that can't be right. Because this is the non-underlined portion, however, we know it must be correct, and "them" must be referring to the "poems."

Most likely, this issue would not show up in an underlined portion because, there, grammatical correctness is more important than style. (For the underlined portion, you have to consider 1) grammar, 2) preservation of speaker's intended meaning, and 3) style, in that order).

"it" is the only pronoun that does not need to replace an explicit noun; instead, "it" can just refer to the state of the world.

A choice with the word "by" in it should always make you worry about style, and the word "by" shows up in a lot of wrong answers. It usually indicates the passive voice ("the ball was kicked by Billy" vs "Billy kicked the ball".)

Kaplan Teacher in Toronto

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crackgmat007: Legendary Member; Posts: 882; Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 2:57 pmFollowed by: 1 member; Thanked: 15 times; GMAT Score:690

by crackgmat007 » Mon Oct 26, 2009 8:02 pm

Testluv, can you clarify whether IT in subordinate clause starting with SINCE can refer to 40 poems? I thought, pronoun in subject position of a subordinate clause refers to the subject of the main clause. Is this question one off? or Is this rule not correct?

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Testluv: GMAT Instructor; Posts: 1302; Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 2:13 pmFollowed by: 164 members; Location: Toronto; Thanked: 539 times; GMAT Score:800

by Testluv » Mon Oct 26, 2009 8:39 pm

Hi,

The "they" after "since" is referring to "them" in the first line..and we learn "them" is "forty poems" in the internal modifying phrase. The rule is correct but perhaps the main clause is the first clause...I will check with the curriculum team.

My own view is that this is a case where the speaker could have correctly done either (use "they" and refer to the poem or use "it" and refer to the event), depending on the speaker's intended meaning...in particular what followed at the end of the sentence.

Notice that the choice one might pick if they thought that it should be "it" instead of "they" is choice B. But choice B is very bad because of its passive construction. Had it not been for this passive construction, I may almost have picked B.

..almost. E is still better than B because it better preserves the speaker's intended meaning. Sentence correction is not always about rules of grammatical construction. Quite often, it is about critical reasoning, and figuring out the speaker's intended meaning. Here, what follows the "they" is a kind of thing that belongs to the poems and not to the event (it wasn't the event itself that provided fascinating evidence about creative proceses; it was the poems themselves). If it was a kind of thing that belonged to the event rather than the poems, then "it" may well have been correct.

Kaplan Teacher in Toronto

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