Sound can travel through water for enormous distances,

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by kevincanspain » Sat Apr 10, 2010 2:16 pm
sumanr84 wrote:kevincanspain,

I really appreciate your help in resolving queries on BTG. However, what I have noted is that you usually give a thinking answer for a problem that leaves most of us unclear about the correct answer for the problem at hand.

Its good that you promote us to think and derive the answer ourselves but if you could provide an absolute answer for the problem at hand, at least in Spoiler that would really help us !!
Remember that the OA has already been given: I simply tried to explain why the passive participle, not the active participle, is correct here by giving a simpler example

Lisa's mother is prevented from leaving the house.
Sound is prevented from dissipating its energy.

C is not a run-on sentence because what follows the comma is not an independent clause
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by jeffedwards » Sat Apr 10, 2010 3:52 pm
ayushiiitm wrote:Why are C &D not considered as run on sentence?

I am very curious to know the flaw in my reasoning :)
Sound can travel through water for enormous distances,
prevented from dissipating its acoustic energy as a result of
boundaries in the ocean created by water layers of different
temperatures and densities.


C. its acoustic energy prevented from dissipating by
D. its acoustic energy prevented from being dissipated as
a result of

It's good to ask questions. Of course, GMAC has the final say but as far as I can tell they do obey grammatical principles...or else test takers could argue their scores.

Ok, so the definition of a run-on sentence (borrowed from Wikipedia)

A run-on sentence is a sentence in which two or more independent clauses(that is, complete sentences) are joined without appropriate punctuation or conjunction.

Your right, the first part of the sentence is an independent clause (a clause that can stand by itself...subj and predicate). However, read the latter half of the sentence. Can this stand on its own? No it can't; it relies on the dependent clause.

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by ayushiiitm » Tue Apr 13, 2010 1:18 pm
The discussion has become very confusing

Some instructor please intervene and explain to us the right answer and the approach

There are multiple issues such as>>run on sentence, past participle, what caused what.
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by Stacey Koprince » Fri Apr 16, 2010 6:58 am
Received a PM asking me to respond.

This is an OG question, so I can't discuss it directly, but I can discuss a similar sentence that I make up... :)

The debate here is between these two "types" of sentences:

1) Light can travel through space for huge distances, its energy prevented from dissipating by X.

2) Light can travel through space for huge distances, preventing its energy from dissipating by X.


Let's start with #1.
The word "prevented" can be a regular conjugated verb or it can be a participle. If it's a participle, it can be part of a verb form (with another conjugated verb before it) or it can indicate a modifier. Examples of the two verb options:

"prevented" as regular conjugated verb: I prevented my paper from blowing away.

Conjugated verb + "prevented" participle: My paper was prevented from blowing away. (The paper was prevented by me.)

Now, what is the difference in those two sentence constructions? The first is active; the second is passive. In the first, the subject (I) is doing the action (prevented). In the second, the subject (paper) is having the action performed on it (I'm still doing the preventing, not the paper).

Could I write: "The paper prevented from blowing away" - meaning, the paper prevented itself from blowing away? Nope. The paper can't prevent itself from blowing away. :) If we want to use "the paper" as the subject, we have to write this in passive voice.

So. Energy prevented from dissipating by X. Is that a sentence? Can the energy prevent itself from dissipating? No, again. If we want to use "energy" as a subject and have an independent clause here, we have to write this in passive voice, which would be "the energy WAS prevented from dissipating by X."

What does that mean? That word "prevented" is not a conjugated verb or part of a conjugated verb form in this sentence. Therefore, it's a modifier and the stuff after the comma in C is NOT an independent clause - it's the rest of the modifier.

Now, #2.
2) Light can travel through space for huge distances, preventing its energy from dissipating by X.

We have <independent clause>, <-ing modifier>. The -ing modifier needs to modify the preceding clause. Also, the modifier needs to follow from the independent clause; that is, something in the independent clause needs to be doing this "preventing." What is doing this preventing?

Argh. It's the stuff after the word "by." That's not part of the independent clause. Nothing in the independent clause is responsible for "preventing the energy from dissipating." This is a misplaced modifier.

If it's too confusing to understand based on the example above, try this:

Paper can fly through the air for huge distances, preventing it from falling by gusts of wind.

What's preventing the paper from falling? The gusts of wind. But the "preventing" has to refer to the stuff *before* the comma. Nothing *before* the comma is actually preventing the paper from falling.
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by subgeeth » Fri Apr 16, 2010 7:22 am
Hi stacy,

That was a good explanation !!!!!
but I still have a doubt with C which is a passive tense

As per your explanation Conjugated verb + "prevented" participle: My paper was prevented from blowing away

I dont find any conjugated verb in C
its energy prevented or its ennergy was prevented

I dont know whether I am missing something .Please correct me if I am wrong
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by Stacey Koprince » Fri Apr 16, 2010 7:24 am
C is NOT passive tense - that's why. :)

I was showing that it's not either active or passive - it's not in a conjugated verb form at all. It's just a participle alone, so it's a modifier.
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by cccmom » Fri Apr 16, 2010 2:42 pm
Stacey, your explanation really helps! Thanks!! :D

Can you explain how an intransitive verb or recognizing this may help or not help in solving this question? Is there a rule with transitive/intransitive that might make sentences like this more clear?

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by lunarpower » Fri Apr 16, 2010 10:46 pm
the strange construction being tested here is called an "absolute phrase".

for further discussion of these, see the following thread:
https://www.beatthegmat.com/sc-with-surf ... tml#232639

when you see weird constructions like this, you should be less intent on analyzing their every word, and correspondingly more intent on memorizing the appearance of specific examples of them, so that you know exactly what they look like (even if you aren't able to analyze them with full confidence).

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by lunarpower » Fri Apr 16, 2010 10:46 pm
Clearly this is a passive voice sentence
this absolute phrase isn't really an example of the passive voice, since it doesn't actually contain a verb.
instead, it just contains a past participle ("prevented"), which functions as a modifier.

note that the passive voice, when it is present, ALSO contains one of these past participles -- so you can think of the two constructions as closely related to each other.
the difference is that, in a genuine passive-voice construction (which must contain a VERB), the past participle is preceded by some form of the verb "to be".

on the other hand, it's incorrect to think that you must have a passive-voice verb whenever you see a past participle; there are all kinds of modifiers that use past participles without passive voice verbs.

probably the most common of these modifiers is an initial modifier containing a past participle:
Dedicated to the recently deceased president, the ceremony was quite emotional.

you may take the same past participle ("dedicated") and place it into a passive-voice construction:
the emotional ceremony was dedicated to the recently deceased president.

you can also do the same with an absolute phrase:
the singer gave an emotional concert, his songs dedicated to the recently deceased president.

again, simply being able to recognize these constructions when you see them ("hey, that looks like some of the other correct answers") is much, much more important than being able to dissect them in excruciating detail.
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by ssgmatter » Thu Jun 03, 2010 7:28 am
I still dont understand as to why E is wrong here
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by ssgmatter » Thu Jun 03, 2010 7:38 am
ssgmatter wrote:I still dont understand as to why E is wrong here
Is E wrong because it seems like the enormous distances are preventing its acoutic energy.....blah blah blah!!

Modifier issue i believe

am i correct??
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by akhpad » Thu Jun 03, 2010 8:30 am
ssgmatter wrote:I still dont understand as to why E is wrong here
Stacey's explanation is quite good. You please first learn deeply about COMMA + ING modifier and then look to Stacey's explanation. I believe that you will get it.

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by ssgmatter » Thu Jun 03, 2010 8:35 am
akhp77 wrote:
ssgmatter wrote:I still dont understand as to why E is wrong here
Stacey's explanation is quite good. You please first learn deeply about COMMA + ING modifier and then look to Stacey's explanation. I believe that you will get it.
Sure....However can you confirm if my reasoning for E is correct??
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by akhpad » Thu Jun 03, 2010 8:56 am
ssgmatter wrote:I still dont understand as to why E is wrong here
COMMA + ING is an adverbial modifier, which modifies entirely of the previous clause.

The bike path diverges from the highway heading into the city. => In this example, we have a -ING modifier that is NOT preceded by a comma.
Therefore, this means that it's only the highway heads into the city; in other words, the highway heads into the city and the bike path diverges from that highway (and thus presumably doesn't lead into the city).

The bike path diverges from the highway, heading into the city. => In this example, we have a COMMA -ING modifier, which (as always) modifies the entire preceding CLAUSE.
Therefore, this time, it's the bike path that heads into the city (as it diverges from the highway).

Five fledgling sea eagles left their nests in western Scotland this summer, bringing to 34 the number of wild
Ex: the fact that "the eagles left (their nests)" is what resulted in having 34 eagles in the wild, so the "comma -ing" setup is correctly referring to the previous clause (noun-verb).

NOW to the Q.

Sound can travel through water for enormous distances, preventing its acoustic energy from dissipating by boundaries in the ocean created by XX.

As per the grammar of COMMA+ING
It looks like that Sound itself prevents its acoustic energy while traveling through water.
How can sound itself does it? Actually, it is happened by XX.

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by ssgmatter » Thu Jun 03, 2010 9:00 am
akhp77 wrote:
ssgmatter wrote:I still dont understand as to why E is wrong here
COMMA + ING is an adverbial modifier, which modifies entirely of the previous clause.

The bike path diverges from the highway heading into the city. => In this example, we have a -ING modifier that is NOT preceded by a comma.
Therefore, this means that it's only the highway heads into the city; in other words, the highway heads into the city and the bike path diverges from that highway (and thus presumably doesn't lead into the city).

The bike path diverges from the highway, heading into the city. => In this example, we have a COMMA -ING modifier, which (as always) modifies the entire preceding CLAUSE.
Therefore, this time, it's the bike path that heads into the city (as it diverges from the highway).

Five fledgling sea eagles left their nests in western Scotland this summer, bringing to 34 the number of wild
Ex: the fact that "the eagles left (their nests)" is what resulted in having 34 eagles in the wild, so the "comma -ing" setup is correctly referring to the previous clause (noun-verb).

NOW to the Q.

Sound can travel through water for enormous distances, preventing its acoustic energy from dissipating by boundaries in the ocean created by XX.

As per the grammar of COMMA+ING
It looks like that Sound itself prevents its acoustic energy while traveling through water.
How can sound itself does it? Actually, it is happened by XX.
Thankyou for such an exhaustive analysis.

So this means that the comma+ing is wrongly used in option E....I read Stacey post twice but still in a dilemmma would request you to explain option C in little more details
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