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Dolphin Whales

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goelmohit2002 GMAT Titan Default Avatar
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Dolphin Whales Post Fri May 08, 2009 8:51 am
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    Hi All,

    Can somebody please help me understand what does "growing" in "B" and "C" modifying ? The OA is "A" and is amongst the best. But can somebody please help me in clearing the doubt of mine ?


    The 32 species that make up the dolphin family are closely related to whales and in fact include the animal known as the killer whale, which can grow to be 30 feet long and is famous for its aggressive hunting pods.

    A. include the animal known as the killer whale, which can grow to be 30 feet long and is
    B. include the animal known as the killer whale, growing as big as 30 feet long and
    C. include the animal known as the killer whale, growing up to 30 feet long and being
    D. include the animal known as the killer whale, which can grow as big as 30 feet long and is
    E. include the animal known as the killer whale, which can grow to be 30 feet long and it is

    Thanks
    Mohit

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    Post Fri May 08, 2009 10:55 am
    It is modifying killer whale.

    kanha81 GMAT Destroyer! Default Avatar
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    Post Fri May 08, 2009 7:55 pm
    goelmohit2002 wrote:
    Hi All,

    Can somebody please help me understand what does "growing" in "B" and "C" modifying ? The OA is "A" and is amongst the best. But can somebody please help me in clearing the doubt of mine ?


    The 32 species that make up the dolphin family are closely related to whales and in fact include the animal known as the killer whale, which can grow to be 30 feet long and is famous for its aggressive hunting pods.

    A. include the animal known as the killer whale, which can grow to be 30 feet long and is
    B. include the animal known as the killer whale, growing as big as 30 feet long and
    C. include the animal known as the killer whale, growing up to 30 feet long and being
    D. include the animal known as the killer whale, which can grow as big as 30 feet long and is
    E. include the animal known as the killer whale, which can grow to be 30 feet long and it is

    Thanks
    Mohit
    An interesting question. I had two possible contenders- [A] & [D]

    [D]- because I thought the comparison is correctly stated. I will have to confirm with SC
    [A]- "to be" kind a sounds fishy, because somewhere I read what someone said that, be judicious in choosing "to be"! Can someone please point out when to choose "to be" and when not and why [D] is not a SMART choice compared TO [A]?

    [B]- is not the correct choice because the sentence looks like it is a present process of growing as we speak + "is" is missing from the sentence.

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    kanha81 GMAT Destroyer! Default Avatar
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    Post Fri May 08, 2009 8:01 pm
    kanha81 wrote:
    goelmohit2002 wrote:
    Hi All,

    Can somebody please help me understand what does "growing" in "B" and "C" modifying ? The OA is "A" and is amongst the best. But can somebody please help me in clearing the doubt of mine ?


    The 32 species that make up the dolphin family are closely related to whales and in fact include the animal known as the killer whale, which can grow to be 30 feet long and is famous for its aggressive hunting pods.

    A. include the animal known as the killer whale, which can grow to be 30 feet long and is
    B. include the animal known as the killer whale, growing as big as 30 feet long and
    C. include the animal known as the killer whale, growing up to 30 feet long and being
    D. include the animal known as the killer whale, which can grow as big as 30 feet long and is
    E. include the animal known as the killer whale, which can grow to be 30 feet long and it is

    Thanks
    Mohit
    An interesting question. I had two possible contenders- [A] & [D]

    [D]- because I thought the comparison is correctly stated. I will have to confirm with SC
    [A]- "to be" kind a sounds fishy, because somewhere I read what someone said that, be judicious in choosing "to be"! Can someone please point out when to choose "to be" and when not and why [D] is not a SMART choice compared TO [A]?

    [B]- is not the correct choice because the sentence looks like it is a present process of growing as we speak + "is" is missing from the sentence.
    I got my answer: http://www.beatthegmat.com/gmat-set-sc-1-t27172.html

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    goelmohit2002 GMAT Titan Default Avatar
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    Post Fri May 08, 2009 8:14 pm
    hemantsood wrote:
    It is modifying killer whale.
    But as per the following link and the post of "effective_factor"..."growing" modifies the subject of the preceding sentence...i.e. "species" in this case

    http://www.urch.com/forums/gmat-sentence-correction/97045-1q8-32-species-make-up-dolphin-family-2.html

    and somewhere else I read that this type of "ing" modifies the preceding clause in its entirety. So there are three things that this "growing" can modify here Sad

    1. killer whale.
    2. Entire previous clause.
    3. Subject of the previous clause i.e. "species" here.

    Can somebody please help in clearing this doubt of mine. It looks that these type of modifiers are pretty commonly tested in GMAT.

    Please tell what I am missing here.

    Thanks
    Mohit

    goelmohit2002 GMAT Titan Default Avatar
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    Post Mon May 11, 2009 1:14 pm
    Experts kindly share your opinion !!!!

    Thanks
    Mohit

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    Stacey Koprince GMAT Instructor
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    Post Thu May 14, 2009 11:53 am
    A "comma -ing" setup is an adverbial modifier, not a noun modifier. Generally speaking, a "comma -ing" set up will modify the full meaning of the preceding clause, which includes the subject, the verb, and (if present) the object! So does it make sense that "the 32 species include the killer whale" should be modified by "can grow to be 30 feet long?"

    No - it makes more sense for the killer whale only to be modified by that info. So what we really want is a noun modifier, not an adverbial modifier. Eliminate B and C.

    Now, to move to a slightly different topic. Where did this question come from? The entire opening part of each answer choice, to the comma, is identical. The real test does not work this way - there is always at least one difference among the answers at the beginning and end of each choice. This question doesn't mimic the GMAT very well for that reason alone - if I see an SC question that does this, I will not study it. And I suggest you hold your study questions to the same standard. Smile

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    goelmohit2002 GMAT Titan Default Avatar
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    Post Thu May 14, 2009 8:39 pm
    Thanks Stacey. The question is from Kaplan.

    Can you please point to a thread where Modifier topic is discussed in more depth? Where we can refer to in more detail when and in what conditions different type of modifiers modify different things. For e.g this "ing" modifier should have modified entire clause.

    This modifier thing looks to be pretty commonly tested and is source of real confusion. It will help to clear the doubts of all fellow BTG members.

    Thanks
    Mohit

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    Post Thu May 14, 2009 10:01 pm
    Include the animal known as the killer whale, which can grow to be 30 feet long and is

    # Generally ,which refers to the noun immediately preceding it. In this case which clearly refers the Killer whale and that is correct.

    #Consider this eg from Manhattan,
    The police found the murder weapon,which made the prosecutors job much easier.
    Here which refers to murder weapon but the meaning of the sentence would become: the murder weapon made the prosecutors job easier which is untrue.

    The correct form should be like:

    The police found the murder weapon,making the prosecutor's job much easier.

    Its finding the murder weapon made the job easier and NOT the murder weapon itself.

    -Deepak

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    Post Thu May 14, 2009 10:05 pm
    Quote:
    The 32 species that make up the dolphin family are closely related to whales and in fact include the animal known as the killer whale, which can grow to be 30 feet long and is famous for its aggressive hunting pods.

    A. include the animal known as the killer whale, which can grow to be 30 feet long and is
    B. include the animal known as the killer whale, growing as big as 30 feet long and
    C. include the animal known as the killer whale, growing up to 30 feet long and being
    D. include the animal known as the killer whale, which can grow as big as 30 feet long and is
    E. include the animal known as the killer whale, which can grow to be 30 feet long and it is
    My answer: A
    B,D: ambiguous use of two descriptors: big and long
    C: "growing ..." makes it a run-on
    E : pronoun "it" is redundant.

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    Post Thu May 14, 2009 10:11 pm
    Stacey Koprince wrote:
    Now, to move to a slightly different topic. Where did this question come from? The entire opening part of each answer choice, to the comma, is identical. The real test does not work this way - there is always at least one difference among the answers at the beginning and end of each choice. This question doesn't mimic the GMAT very well for that reason alone - if I see an SC question that does this, I will not study it. And I suggest you hold your study questions to the same standard. Smile
    did anyone else not spot that fact that "animal" is singular, and so the verb should be "includes"? perhaps this should have been a difference in the first part (up to the comma) in one/some of the answer choices?

    @mohit: was this a typo?

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    Post Fri May 15, 2009 12:10 am
    thetrystero wrote:
    did anyone else not spot that fact that "animal" is singular, and so the verb should be "includes"? perhaps this should have been a difference in the first part (up to the comma) in one/some of the answer choices?

    @mohit: was this a typo?
    IMO here include is correct usage....because "The 32 species........include....."so subject is species and verb is include...

    Please tell if i am missing something here.

    Thanks
    Mohit

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    Post Fri May 15, 2009 12:15 am
    thetrystero wrote:
    Quote:
    The 32 species that make up the dolphin family are closely related to whales and in fact include the animal known as the killer whale, which can grow to be 30 feet long and is famous for its aggressive hunting pods.

    A. include the animal known as the killer whale, which can grow to be 30 feet long and is
    B. include the animal known as the killer whale, growing as big as 30 feet long and
    C. include the animal known as the killer whale, growing up to 30 feet long and being
    D. include the animal known as the killer whale, which can grow as big as 30 feet long and is
    E. include the animal known as the killer whale, which can grow to be 30 feet long and it is
    My answer: A
    B,D: ambiguous use of two descriptors: big and long
    C: "growing ..." makes it a run-on
    E : pronoun "it" is redundant.
    Can you please help me understand why "growing" makes it run-on. As per my understanding....the first clause is a complete sentence and second is modifying something....and since that something is not clear...so it is a issue of modifier and not run-on sentence.

    As per my understanding, run sentence happens when the sentence does not have any one independent clause....but IMO first sentence is a complete independent clause.

    Please tell if what I am missing here.


    Thanks
    Mohit

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    Post Fri May 15, 2009 7:02 am
    Mohit is right on the "include" issue: 32 species include.

    A run-on sentence occurs when two independent clauses are connected with a comma but no coordinating conjunction of any type.

    I went to the store, I bought some milk.

    That's an example of a run-on sentence. C doesn't qualify as a run-on (in the above problem).

    Mohit, I don't know of a single thread or web page on which GMAT modifiers are discussed in their entirety. The Modifiers chapter of our book does this, but (for obvious reasons!) we don't post the whole text online...

    Does anyone else know of an online resource that discusses modifiers thoroughly?

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    goelmohit2002 GMAT Titan Default Avatar
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    Post Fri May 15, 2009 8:10 am
    Thanks Stacey.

    As single thread is not there, if possible, then can you please point to some threads of modifiers where similar things are discussed in more depth. It will really help in understanding the modifier thing a bit more. This modifier thing is pretty commonly tested in GMAT and learning the same is worthwhile the time invested.

    Also can you please once give your opinion on the below thread and the post of "effective_factor"...as per him "growing" modifies the subject of the preceding sentence...i.e. "species" in this case

    http://www.urch.com/forums/gmat-sentence-correction/97045-1q8-32-species-make-up-dolphin-family-2.html

    Kindly tell why growing is modifying the subject here and not the entire clause in this case.


    Thanks a lot
    Mohit

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