Dolphin Whales

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by Kajiabeat » Sat Aug 21, 2010 6:14 am
GMATGuruNY wrote: I would argue that prompting is an adjective modifying the noun birds; the birds are doing the prompting. How did they do the prompting? By falling from the sky. (To prompt means to incite, to cause an action to happen.)

As far as I know, only an absolute phrase can modify an entire clause:

Mary entered the room, her eyes shining brightly.

The phrase her eyes shining brightly modifies the entire clause Mary entered the room. The phrase tells us in what context Mary entered the room. But within the absolute phrase, the -ing word shining is an adjective modifying the noun eyes: her eyes were shining.

I stand by my previous post: it should be clear who or what is performing the action of an -ing word that is acting as a modifier. If you can't tell what a modifier is modifying, eliminate the answer choice. I've seen quite a few official GMAT SCs, and I can't think of a single correct answer choice in which it's not clear who or what is performing the action of an -ing word that is functioning as a modifier.
Thank you Mitch!

Then I came up with another question: you must know that the setence about birds falling down from sky is another GMAT SC problem.

In the mid-1970's, since birds were overcome by pollution, and routinely falling from the sky above Los Angeles freeways, this prompted officials in California to devise a plan that reduced automobile emissions.

since birds were overcome by pollution, and routinely falling from the sky above Los Angeles freeways, this prompted officials in California to devise a plan that reduced

since birds that had been overcome by pollution were routinely falling from the sky above Los Angeles freeways, it prompted officials in California to devise a plan that would reduce

birds had been overcome by pollution and routinely fell from the sky above Los Angeles freeways, prompting officials in California to devise a plan that reduced

birds overcome by pollution routinely fell from the sky above Los Angeles freeways, prompting officials in California to devise a plan to reduce

birds overcome by pollution and routinely falling from the sky above Los Angeles freeways were prompting officials in California to devise a plan to reduce


What made me decide that D is the right one when I hesitated between D and E is that I think the "prompting ...." in D is modifying the whole preceding clause,expressing a meaning that the whole situation prmopts the officials, whereas the E is expressing the meaning that it is the bird that prompted the official. I think the former one is more reasonable then I chose D.

So...my thought on this choice is not that right?

or in other words, if the choice E changes to birds overcome by pollution and routinely falling from the sky above Los Angeles freeways prompted(I changed the tense to past tense) officials in California to devise a plan to reduce,

is it qualified to be the right answer? How should I see the implication of an"Ing" modifier?

Sorry my question may be a little confusing, as I'm really confused at this problem. Please do shed some light it.

Thank you very much!

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by GMATGuruNY » Sat Aug 21, 2010 7:48 am
Kajiabeat wrote:
Thank you Mitch!

Then I came up with another question: you must know that the setence about birds falling down from sky is another GMAT SC problem.

In the mid-1970's, since birds were overcome by pollution, and routinely falling from the sky above Los Angeles freeways, this prompted officials in California to devise a plan that reduced automobile emissions.

since birds were overcome by pollution, and routinely falling from the sky above Los Angeles freeways, this prompted officials in California to devise a plan that reduced

since birds that had been overcome by pollution were routinely falling from the sky above Los Angeles freeways, it prompted officials in California to devise a plan that would reduce

birds had been overcome by pollution and routinely fell from the sky above Los Angeles freeways, prompting officials in California to devise a plan that reduced

birds overcome by pollution routinely fell from the sky above Los Angeles freeways, prompting officials in California to devise a plan to reduce

birds overcome by pollution and routinely falling from the sky above Los Angeles freeways were prompting officials in California to devise a plan to reduce


What made me decide that D is the right one when I hesitated between D and E is that I think the "prompting ...." in D is modifying the whole preceding clause,expressing a meaning that the whole situation prmopts the officials, whereas the E is expressing the meaning that it is the bird that prompted the official. I think the former one is more reasonable then I chose D.

So...my thought on this choice is not that right?

or in other words, if the choice E changes to birds overcome by pollution and routinely falling from the sky above Los Angeles freeways prompted(I changed the tense to past tense) officials in California to devise a plan to reduce,

is it qualified to be the right answer? How should I see the implication of an"Ing" modifier?

Sorry my question may be a little confusing, as I'm really confused at this problem. Please do shed some light it.

Thank you very much!
Your thinking is correct. E can be eliminated because it changes the intended meaning of the sentence.

In E the main verb is were prompting, while overcome and falling are adjectives; the result is a strange change in meaning. E implies that a particular group of birds was so tired of coughing up smoke and falling from the sky that it kept prompting the officials to devise a plan. (What a strange image! These poor winged creatures -- covered in smoke, half their bones broken -- holding a meeting with the officials and yelling, "Devise a plan! We're tired of falling from the sky!" Clearly this is not the intended meaning of the sentence.)
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by Kajiabeat » Sat Aug 21, 2010 5:53 pm
hah~~your explanation is so funny! Thank you !

Well, do you think there are some situations that we'd better use "conna+ing" modifier but not other forms, or you think there's generally no rules about this?

I'm a little lost as you know GMAT always give you several form such as "camma +which clause", "comma+with phrase" expressing the same thing, but which one is most proper? It depends on what this forms mean,right? So I guess I should have a clear mind about this forms' usage generally.

Could you give some tips on this ? Thanks very much!

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by Stacey Koprince » Mon Aug 23, 2010 2:21 pm
Received a PM asking me to respond asking me to respond the a post made on 20 Aug, so I'm going all the way back to that. :)

-ing words can function as multiple parts of speech and in multiple contexts. An -ing word next to a noun and not separate from that noun by a comma is typically just a straight adjective. It modifies the noun and nothing else.

The smiling cat is the one who ran down the street. In this sentence, the cat is smiling. Was the cat smiling WHILE he ran down the street? I don't know. There are two cats sitting there in the sunshine, and one is smiling and one isn't. I'm telling you that the one that is smiling now is the who ran down the street at some point in the past. But I'm not telling you whether the cat was smiling while he ran down the street.

What if I said "the smiling cat ran down the street"? I haven't given you enough info to know whether the cat was smiling as he ran down the street or if he's just smiling now - just like the last example.

What about this sentence?
Smiling, the cat ran down the street. What does this mean? Now, I'm still referring to the cat - the cat's the one who is smiling - but I'm also referring to the cat's action. The cat smiled as he ran down the street.

I could also put the "smiling" in the middle: The cat, smiling, ran down the street.
Or at the end: The cat ran down the street, smiling.

In all three cases, I'm telling you that the cat was smiling as he ran down the street. See the difference? Still primarily about the cat, yes, but more information than just "the cat's smiling."

Let's see, your first example.

The principal feature is a series <of instructions> <that the company hopes will help something>, <which include/s, or including> A, B, and C. (where A, B, and C are examples of the series of instructions)

<of instructions> modifies "series"
<that the company hopes will help something> modifies "series of instructions"

You might be able to use the noun modifier "which" here if you switched the sentence around - "a series of instructions, which..."

But that's not what we've got. We've got that whole "that the company" modifier breaking things up. Sigh. So we need this more complicated modifier structure instead.

Main clause: "the principle feature is a series"
adverbial modifier: "including A, B, and C"

A, B, and C are part of this principle feature that consists of a series of instructions - that's the full meaning of the main clause.

I don't think the above is a great question by the way. It feels... old to me. I would expect to see this on old GMAT questions from maybe 15 years ago. Anyway.

For the second one, this is a slightly unusual structure in that they put the adverbial modifier between the subject and verb rather than after the verb. Most of the time, the "comma - ing" (or -ing comma) comes either before or after the full clause.

Here's a more typical setup: "policy makers are almost certain to leave rates unchanged, viewing the economy as balanced." or "viewing the economy as balanced, policy makers are almost certain to leave rates unchanged."

The meaning here is two-fold: the policy makers probably aren't going to change the rates, and that's because they view the economy as balanced. I'm not telling you two totally separate pieces of info: that the policy makers probably aren't going to change the rates and, oh, by the way, on a totally unrelated note, the policy makers view the economy as balanced.
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by Stacey Koprince » Wed Aug 25, 2010 12:00 pm
Oh, and I should add one more thing:

technically, a "comma -ing" is neither a strict noun modifier nor a strict adverbial modifier. When I said before that it is *not* a noun modifier but *is* an adverbial modifier, I was simplifying. I've gotten into the habit of simplifying this because the general rule is typically that a noun modifier modifies ONLY a noun while an adverbial modifier modifies anything else. But I'm really simplifying too much. :)

A strict noun modifier refers only to the noun. A strict adverbial modifier refers only to the word (which is NOT a noun) that it modifies.

The happy girl danced slowly. Happy = a noun modifier that modifies only the noun "girl." Slowly = an adverbial modifier that modifies only the verb "danced."

A "comma -ing" modifier modifies BOTH.
The happy girl danced, revolving around the dance floor.

"revolving..." modifies the clause, and the clause consists of the subject and verb (and possibly an object). It modifies BOTH the girl and the action that the girl is doing (dancing), together.
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by Kajiabeat » Thu Aug 26, 2010 7:01 am
Stacey Koprince wrote:Oh, and I should add one more thing:

technically, a "comma -ing" is neither a strict noun modifier nor a strict adverbial modifier. When I said before that it is *not* a noun modifier but *is* an adverbial modifier, I was simplifying. I've gotten into the habit of simplifying this because the general rule is typically that a noun modifier modifies ONLY a noun while an adverbial modifier modifies anything else. But I'm really simplifying too much. :)

A strict noun modifier refers only to the noun. A strict adverbial modifier refers only to the word (which is NOT a noun) that it modifies.

The happy girl danced slowly. Happy = a noun modifier that modifies only the noun "girl." Slowly = an adverbial modifier that modifies only the verb "danced."

A "comma -ing" modifier modifies BOTH.
The happy girl danced, revolving around the dance floor.

"Slowly revolving..." modifies the clause, and the clause consists of the subject and verb (and possibly an object). It modifies BOTH the girl and the action that the girl is doing (dancing), together.
Thanks a million, Stacey!

After reading your second post about my question (the one quoted above), the conflicts about it in my head somehow get erased.

Can I put it as following: The advantage that "comma+ing" can both modify the subject and the verb of the preceding clause makes it reasonable and better to use this form when we want to modify a noun(phrase) but the "which" clause will induce ambiguity ? (coz "ing" modifier bypasses the problem that "which" clause cannot avoid. for example, there are many nouns in the preceding clause.or the word just before the modifier is not the intended one, etc)?

my thought is deduced from this question:

The principal feature of the redesigned checks is a series of printed instructions that the company hopes will help merchants confirm a check's authenticity, which includes reminders to watch the endorsement, compare signatures, and view the watermark while holding the check to the light.

a.which includes reminders to watch the endorsement, compare signatures, and view

b.which include reminders for watching the endorsement, to compare signatures and view

c.by including reminders for watching the endorsement, comparing signatures, and viewing

d.including reminders to watch the endorsement, comparing signatures and viewing

e.including reminders to watch the endorsement, compare signatures, and view

key: e



Sorry I didn't reply your first post right after reading it. There's a lot that I cannot digest immediately and I hope I can post back something not just saying "thank you".

Still, now I just have time for the second one. I will read the first one again as soon as I can and try to understand more.

Btw, I've also read lots of your posts on Mgmat forum, which are also very great and helpful too.

Thanks again for having you during my tough prep days of GMAT. (I hate myself for not having many great English grateful words in my head...hope you can feel my sincere appreciation. :-))

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by Kajiabeat » Thu Aug 26, 2010 7:51 am
I found another question which is very similar to the above mentioned one:

A study by the Ocean Wildlife Campaign urged states to undertake a number of remedies to reverse a decline in the shark population, which includes the establishment of size limits for shark catches, closing state waters for shark fishing during pupping season, and requiring commercial fishers to have federal shark permits.

which includes the establishment of size limits for shark catches, closing

which includes establishing limits to the size of sharks that can be caught, closing

which include the establishment of size limits for shark catches, the closing of

including establishing size limits for shark catches, closing

including the establishing of limits to the size of sharks that are caught, the closing of



can they imply a preference of GMAC about using "comma+ing" in this kind of situation----describing a bunch of methods with a long modifier besides the "including....."?

I've also have seen some questions in which the "which" clause does not modify the word just preceding it, but the distance between the clause and the targeted word is not very far(for example, just a 3-or-4-word preposition phrase)

it is here using "comma+ing" because the distance is too far?

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by Stacey Koprince » Mon Aug 30, 2010 1:05 pm
When posting questions, please make sure to cite the source (author) so that I can discuss the problem directly.

A "comma -ing" modifier is not modifying only a noun, and IF it shows up after the clause, then it is especially not referring to the immediately preceding noun (if there is one right before the comma).

A "comma which" modifier is modifying only a noun, and that noun is the immediately preceding main noun (not necessarily the subject - just the first main noun preceding the comma). You can have a short descriptive modifier between the main noun and the "comma which." That short descriptive modifier will be some necessary description so that we can understand what the main noun is.

The box of nails, which is on the desk, ...
The "comma which" modifies box. The box is on the desk. Which box? The box of nails. "of nails" is a short descriptive modifier and necessary to our understanding of the main noun "box."

Can you apply that simpler example to the more complex examples above?
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by Kajiabeat » Sat Sep 04, 2010 4:09 am
Stacey Koprince wrote:When posting questions, please make sure to cite the source (author) so that I can discuss the problem directly.

A "comma -ing" modifier is not modifying only a noun, and IF it shows up after the clause, then it is especially not referring to the immediately preceding noun (if there is one right before the comma).

A "comma which" modifier is modifying only a noun, and that noun is the immediately preceding main noun (not necessarily the subject - just the first main noun preceding the comma). You can have a short descriptive modifier between the main noun and the "comma which." That short descriptive modifier will be some necessary description so that we can understand what the main noun is.

The box of nails, which is on the desk, ...
The "comma which" modifies box. The box is on the desk. Which box? The box of nails. "of nails" is a short descriptive modifier and necessary to our understanding of the main noun "box."

Can you apply that simpler example to the more complex examples above?
hi! Thank you ver your reply.

Sorry, I know the "rule", but I don't really know the source of the SC problem about Ocean Wildlife Campaign , and the answer should be D.

Well,...I can understand what you mean, but I'm still confused about my question, about the usage of "comma+ing" to discpribe a set of methods or strategies or sth like that.

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by GMATGuruNY » Sat Sep 04, 2010 5:26 am
Kajiabeat wrote:I found another question which is very similar to the above mentioned one:

A study by the Ocean Wildlife Campaign urged states to undertake a number of remedies to reverse a decline in the shark population, which includes the establishment of size limits for shark catches, closing state waters for shark fishing during pupping season, and requiring commercial fishers to have federal shark permits.

which includes the establishment of size limits for shark catches, closing

which includes establishing limits to the size of sharks that can be caught, closing

which include the establishment of size limits for shark catches, the closing of

including establishing size limits for shark catches, closing

including the establishing of limits to the size of sharks that are caught, the closing of



can they imply a preference of GMAC about using "comma+ing" in this kind of situation----describing a bunch of methods with a long modifier besides the "including....."?

I've also have seen some questions in which the "which" clause does not modify the word just preceding it, but the distance between the clause and the targeted word is not very far(for example, just a 3-or-4-word preposition phrase)

it is here using "comma+ing" because the distance is too far?
Quickest approach:

In A and B, the singular verb includes implies that the pronoun which refers either to the singular noun decline or to the singular noun population, but neither the decline nor the population includes the list pf remedies that follows. Eliminate A and B.

C and E lack parallelism: the establishment of (the + noun + preposition), the establishing of (the + gerund + preposition), and the closing of (the + gerund + preposition) are not parallel with requiring commercial fishers (gerund + direct object). Eliminate C and E.

The correct answer is D.

D is correct not because the GMAT writers prefer including to which include but because A, B, C and E each have a clear error. SCs do not test preferences; they test the rules of grammar.
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by Kajiabeat » Tue Sep 07, 2010 6:13 pm
Thanks you Mitch.

I personally have met at least 3 SC questions with the similar structure as the above one----there is....methods of ...., INCLUDING......
I just guess that's because the GMACers consider the "which clause" inappropriate here, therefore they make this structure in the wrong choices (as we know, a GMAT wrong choice always have more than one faults.) and what I thought about is if "which clause" is really worse than"comma+ing" here ,or is just a coincidence or an irrelavant split among the choices.

Maybe I shouldn't probe that much.

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by RBBmba@2014 » Tue Mar 08, 2016 5:15 am
GMATGuruNY wrote:
Kajiabeat wrote: In the mid-1970's, since birds were overcome by pollution, and routinely falling from the sky above Los Angeles freeways, this prompted officials in California to devise a plan that reduced automobile emissions.

since birds were overcome by pollution, and routinely falling from the sky above Los Angeles freeways, this prompted officials in California to devise a plan that reduced

since birds that had been overcome by pollution were routinely falling from the sky above Los Angeles freeways, it prompted officials in California to devise a plan that would reduce

birds had been overcome by pollution and routinely fell from the sky above Los Angeles freeways, prompting officials in California to devise a plan that reduced

birds overcome by pollution routinely fell from the sky above Los Angeles freeways, prompting officials in California to devise a plan to reduce

birds overcome by pollution and routinely falling from the sky above Los Angeles freeways were prompting officials in California to devise a plan to reduce
Your thinking is correct. E can be eliminated because it changes the intended meaning of the sentence.

In E the main verb is were prompting, while overcome and falling are adjectives; the result is a strange change in meaning. E implies that a particular group of birds was so tired of coughing up smoke and falling from the sky that it kept prompting the officials to devise a plan. (What a strange image! These poor winged creatures -- covered in smoke, half their bones broken -- holding a meeting with the officials and yelling, "Devise a plan! We're tired of falling from the sky!" Clearly this is not the intended meaning of the sentence.)
Is this an Official Qs ?