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by binit » Sat May 30, 2015 7:40 am
Popular child psychologists have advocated that parents discipline male children similarly to the fashion in which they discipline daughters.

similarly to the fashion in which they discipline
in the same manner that they would use with
like they would handle
as they discipline
as they would


[spoiler]OA: E[/spoiler]
I think this is an example of subjunctive and the main verb discipline should be parallel in the second part. Somebody pls explain how the would is correct in the second part. Experts pls comment.

~Binit
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by stephanieh » Sat May 30, 2015 6:12 pm
binit wrote:Popular child psychologists have advocated that parents discipline male children similarly to the fashion in which they discipline daughters.

similarly to the fashion in which they discipline
in the same manner that they would use with
like they would handle
as they discipline
as they would


[spoiler]OA: E[/spoiler]
I think this is an example of subjunctive and the main verb discipline should be parallel in the second part. Somebody pls explain how the would is correct in the second part. Experts pls comment.

~Binit
Hi Binit, I think you left some words off of the answers or the sentence? Shouldn't it be "their daughters"?

In any case, if you're making a hypothetical statement, then you would say "would". Like, "If this were to happen, then that would follow."
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by binit » Sun May 31, 2015 3:40 am
Hi Binit, I think you left some words off of the answers or the sentence? Shouldn't it be "their daughters"?
Nope. 'their' isn't there before 'daughter', and that's logical coz there is no 'their' before 'male child'.
In any case, if you're making a hypothetical statement, then you would say "would". Like, "If this were to happen, then that would follow."
Yes, you are right about 'if-then' statement. But in this problem the construction is different. My doubt is: whether parents discipline male children as they would daughter is a parallel construction??

~Binit.
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by Spencer@Prep4GMAT » Tue Jun 02, 2015 5:48 am
Hi Binit,

This is called ellipsis. Ellipsis is when words are omitted, either to simplify a sentence, or by using "..."

Example: I eat my Oreo cookies the exact same way my father does.

Here, does is taken to mean eat his Oreo cookies, as in I eat my Oreo cookies the exact same way my father eats his Oreo cookies, but this is easily understood from the context and left out for a simpler construction.

Likewise: Popular child psychologists have advocated that parents discipline male children as they would (discipline) daughters.

Discipline is left out, but clearly implied by the context.

Example: Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something. - Plato

Though the verb talk (like discipline above) is omitted, the clearly implied meaning is that fools (talk) because they have to say something.
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by Abhishek009 » Tue Jun 02, 2015 9:17 am
binit wrote:Popular child psychologists have advocated that parents discipline male children similarly to the fashion in which they discipline daughters.


I find subjunctive mood (Command Subjunctive) here -

Bossy Verb+ That + Subject + Command Subjunctive = Advocate + that + parents + discipline

Now eliminating Options

1. similarly to the fashion in which they discipline - Wordy and Awkward
2. in the same manner that they would use with - Wordy and Awkward
3. like they would handle - Like must be followed by Nouns.
4. as they discipline - Contender
5. as they would { Discipline }- Subjunctive , seems better than (D) {Discipline - Noun can be omitted without changing the meaning - Very much gramatical in GMAT}
Abhishek
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by binit » Wed Jun 03, 2015 10:51 pm
Hi Spencer and Abhishek009,

Thanks guys for ur inputs,

Maybe I cudn't make myself clear. What exactly I wanted to know is little different: I precisely have problems in comparing answer choices D and E. ELLIPSIS and SUBJUNCTIVE parts are clear but why would discipline is preferred to discipline in the second part of the sentence??
5. as they would { Discipline }- Subjunctive , seems better than (D) {Discipline - Noun can be omitted without changing the meaning - Very much gramatical in GMAT}
Abhishek, pls elaborate why E is better than D? Why would is necessary? Ellipsis is no problem to me. And Discipline is used as a verb here, I think.

~Binit.
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by bonetlobo » Thu Jun 04, 2015 4:40 am
D Vs E is indeed confusing.

Is D incorrect because the first "discipline" is coming out as a bossy verb, while second "discipline" is not coming out as bossy verb?
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by Spencer@Prep4GMAT » Thu Jun 04, 2015 6:11 am
binit wrote:Hi Spencer and Abhishek009,

Thanks guys for ur inputs,

Maybe I cudn't make myself clear. What exactly I wanted to know is little different: I precisely have problems in comparing answer choices D and E. ELLIPSIS and SUBJUNCTIVE parts are clear but why would discipline is preferred to discipline in the second part of the sentence??
5. as they would { Discipline }- Subjunctive , seems better than (D) {Discipline - Noun can be omitted without changing the meaning - Very much gramatical in GMAT}
Abhishek, pls elaborate why E is better than D? Why would is necessary? Ellipsis is no problem to me. And Discipline is used as a verb here, I think.

~Binit.
Hi Binit and Bonetlobo,

Great question! Let's take a close look at Choice (D) and Choice (E).

(D) Popular child psychologists have advocated that parents discipline male children as they discipline daughters. The problem with this sentence is that it could easily sound like we're recommending that parents discipline both sons and daughters at the same time. For example: She closed the door as she left.

(E) Popular child psychologists have advocated that parents discipline male children as they would daughters. The use of the conditional would makes it clear that we're not advocating disciplining sons and daughters at the same time since now the second situation is hypothetical: Parents should discipline sons as they would daughters IF they were disciplining daughters (though they are not).

Another example:
He ate the hamburger as he ate his last meal. It sounds like the hamburger accompanied, or was, the last meal he would eat.
He ate the hamburger as he would his last meal. It sounds like he ate the hamburger as though it were the last meal he would ever eat.
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by Abhishek009 » Thu Jun 04, 2015 9:17 am
binit wrote:Abhishek, pls elaborate why E is better than D? Why would is necessary? Ellipsis is no problem to me. And Discipline is used as a verb here, I think.
~Binit.
Lets try a different approach ( Though wonderfully explained by GMAT Expert Spencer@Prep4GMAT - Still I dare to explain it my way .... )

Popular child psychologists have advocated that parents discipline male children as they discipline daughters.

- The above sentence means

Psychologists advocate discipline male children as they ( Referring to parents ) discipline daughters (Which is currently the way that Psychologists expects things to be ).

discipline male children as they discipline daughters. = Suggests that Discipline of daughters is taking place according to the Child Psychologists wish.There remains no confusion with the discipline of daughters and they wants to extend the same to the male children as well.

Popular child psychologists have advocated that parents discipline male children as they would daughters.

discipline male children as they would {Discipline } daughters : This part suggests

Discipline of daughters is not taking happening according to the Psychologists wish.
The word Would according to me acts as a subjunctive { Wish } mood.

Hope I could help a bit...
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by binit » Fri Jun 05, 2015 1:13 am
Great Kudos to Spencer, you made it crystal clear to me. I understand the essence of the sentence as well as my mistake, this time.
Discipline of daughters is not taking happening according to the Psychologists wish.
The word Would according to me acts as a subjunctive { Wish } mood.
Abhishek, I think the first part: Popular child psychologists have advocated that parents discipline - is also Subjunctive. It uses a BARE INFINITIVE: discipline. But would is needed before daughters since that's not what the Psychologists directly advocate - they say AS IF they would.
Anyway thanks a lot for your replies, guys.

~Binit.
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