q17 og13 restudy

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q17 og13 restudy

by tanviet » Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:42 am
Sunspots, vortices of gas associated with strong
electromagnetic activity,// are visible as dark spots on
the surface of the Sun but,have never been sighted on//
the Sun's poles or equator.
(A) are visible as dark spot s on the surface of the
Sun but have never been sighted on
(B) are visible as dark spots that never have been
sighted on the surface of the Sun
(0 appear on the surface of the Sun as dark spots
although never sighted at
(D) appear as dark spots on the surface of the Sun,
although never having been sighted at
(E) appear as dark spots on the Sun's surface,
which have never been sighted on

My question is
why C and D are wrong? why elipsis in C and D , " sighted on the surface of the sun..." is not acceptable.

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by challenger63 » Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:17 am
duongthang wrote:Sunspots, vortices of gas associated with strong
electromagnetic activity,// are visible as dark spots on
the surface of the Sun but,have never been sighted on//
the Sun's poles or equator.
(A) are visible as dark spot s on the surface of the
Sun but have never been sighted on
(B) are visible as dark spots that never have been
sighted on the surface of the Sun
(0 appear on the surface of the Sun as dark spots
although never sighted at
(D) appear as dark spots on the surface of the Sun,
although never having been sighted at
(E) appear as dark spots on the Sun's surface,
which have never been sighted on

My question is
why C and D are wrong? why elipsis in C and D , " sighted on the surface of the sun..." is not acceptable.
"lose contradiction meaning" - B and E out
"sight at" not "on"- A,B,E out
"which" can't refer to surface - E out
"comm + although" requires complete S+A - D out
"action verb" > "stationary be + adj/active noun" - A,B out

The problem of " sighted on the surface of the sun..." is in "sighted ON". It should be "at"
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by ceilidh.erickson » Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:42 am
There are two issues in this sentence: parallelism and idioms.

If we strip away all of the modifiers, the core of our original sentence is:
Sunspots... are visible... but have never been sighted...

Here, the subject "sunspots" applies to both verbs, "are visible" and "have never been sighted," (makes sense from a meaning perspective), and the verbs are parallel. Let's look at how the other answer choices treat these verbs...

B. ARE VISIBLE is now the only verb. THAT HAVE NEVER BEEN SIGHTED is now a clause that's modifying DARK SPOTS, so we've changed the original meaning slightly. Also, it would make no sense to say "...on the surface of the Sun the Sun's poles...", which is how it would look if we inserted it back into the sentence.

C. Sunspots... APPEAR... ALTHOUGH NEVER SIGHTED... fails the parallelism test. APPEAR is a simple present tense verb, whereas SIGHTED is just a modifying past participle, and not a verb. We would need something like "although they are never sighted" to make this parallel.

D. Sunspots... APPEAR... ALTHOUGH NEVER HAVING BEEN SIGHTED. Same issue as in C (just with a slightly more complicated modifier). It still fails the parallelism test.

E. APPEAR is the only verb. HAVE NEVER BEEN SIGHTED comes after WHICH, meaning that it's now in a modifying clause. Any clause beginning with WHICH will always modify the noun that came before it - in this case, SUN'S SURFACE. So it's saying that the Sun's surface has never been sighted, which makes no sense.

The other issue here is one of IDIOMS. "Sighted on" and "sighted at" have different meanings. Consider:
Bob sighted his friend at the Hoover Dam. They were both at the Hoover Dam, and Bob saw his friend.
Bob sighted his friend on the Hoover Dam. The friend was on top of the dam, Bob may or may not have been there (maybe he saw it on the news).

SIGHTED AT means "at the location of." Nothing has ever been "sighted at the Sun's poles," because no human could be on the surface of the Sun to see it! SIGHTED ON could mean that we're looking from a distance, and seeing something on something else.
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by GMATGuruNY » Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:44 pm
duongthang wrote:Sunspots, vortices of gas associated with strong
electromagnetic activity,// are visible as dark spots on
the surface of the Sun but,have never been sighted on//
the Sun's poles or equator.
(A) are visible as dark spot s on the surface of the
Sun but have never been sighted on
(B) are visible as dark spots that never have been
sighted on the surface of the Sun
(0 appear on the surface of the Sun as dark spots
although never sighted at
(D) appear as dark spots on the surface of the Sun,
although never having been sighted at
(E) appear as dark spots on the Sun's surface,
which have never been sighted on

My question is
why C and D are wrong? why elipsis in C and D , " sighted on the surface of the sun..." is not acceptable.
A VERBLESS CLAUSE is a clause in which the subject and verb are omitted, but their presence is understood.
The omitted verb is usually a form of TO BE.

A verbless although clause must be NEXT TO THE OMITTED SUBJECT.
From the OG for Verbal:
Although eradicated in the United states, POLIO continues elsewhere.
Here, the verbless although clause is correctly placed next to the omitted subject (polio).
Implied meaning:
Although [it has been] eradicated in the United states, Polio continues elsewhere.
The words in brackets are omitted, but their presence is understood.

The following structure would be incorrect:
Polio continues elsewhere, although eradicated in the United States.
Here, the verbless although clause is NOT next to the omitted subject (polio).

In C, although never sighted (a verbless although clause) is NOT next to sunspots (the omitted subject).
D presents the same issue.
Eliminate C and D.
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by tanviet » Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:05 pm
GMATGuruNY wrote:
duongthang wrote:Sunspots, vortices of gas associated with strong
electromagnetic activity,// are visible as dark spots on
the surface of the Sun but,have never been sighted on//
the Sun's poles or equator.
(A) are visible as dark spot s on the surface of the
Sun but have never been sighted on
(B) are visible as dark spots that never have been
sighted on the surface of the Sun
(0 appear on the surface of the Sun as dark spots
although never sighted at
(D) appear as dark spots on the surface of the Sun,
although never having been sighted at
(E) appear as dark spots on the Sun's surface,
which have never been sighted on

My question is
why C and D are wrong? why elipsis in C and D , " sighted on the surface of the sun..." is not acceptable.
A VERBLESS CLAUSE is a clause in which the subject and verb are omitted, but their presence is understood.
The omitted verb is usually a form of TO BE.

A verbless although clause must be NEXT TO THE OMITTED SUBJECT.
From the OG for Verbal:
Although eradicated in the United states, POLIO continues elsewhere.
Here, the verbless although clause is correctly placed next to the omitted subject (polio).
Implied meaning:
Although [it has been] eradicated in the United states, Polio continues elsewhere.
The words in brackets are omitted, but their presence is understood.

The following structure would be incorrect:
Polio continues elsewhere, although eradicated in the United States.
Here, the verbless although clause is NOT next to the omitted subject (polio).

In C, although never sighted (a verbless although clause) is NOT next to sunspots (the omitted subject).
D presents the same issue.
Eliminate C and D.
Great, great, great.
your reply is great, great, great because you use og question to ilustrate your point. og never declare the rule of verbaless clause. How do you find this rule???
you infer from 2 og questions? is that right? or you read the rule from some book/class. pls tell me.


another thing.

the following from Verbal Review 2nd,
Why E is wrong?
if "willing " in E is adjective, it is wrong for your rule above
if"willing" is a doing, why "willing" is wrong?

pls, explain. this problem is not meaning/logic, it is about rule and it it regretfull that we fail because we do not know the rule .

Unlike computer skills or other technical skills, there is a disinclination on the part of many people to recognize the degree to which their analytical skills are weak.
(A) Unlike computer skills or other technical skills, there is a disinclination on the part of many people to recognize the degree to which their analytical skills are weak.
(B) Unlike computer skills or other technical skills, which they admit they lack, many people are disinclined to recognize that their analytical skills are weak.
(C) Unlike computer skills or other technical skills, analytical skills bring out a disinclination in many people to recognize that they are weak to a degree.
(D) Many people, willing to admit that they lack computer skills or other technical skills, are disinclined to recognize that their analytical skills are weak.
(E) Many people have a disinclination to recognize the weakness of their analytical skills while willing to admit their lack of computer skills or other technical skills.

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by tanviet » Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:24 am
why in the following from gmatprep, C is correct? pls help

The results of the company's cost-cutting measures are evident in its profits, which increased five percent during the first three months of this year after it fell over the last two years.

A. which increased five percent during the first three months of this year after it fell

B. which had increased five percent during the first three months of this year after it had fallen

C. which have increased five percent during the first three months of this year after falling over the last two years

D. with a five percent increase during the first three months of this year after falling

E. with a five percent increase during the first three months of this year after having fallen

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by ceilidh.erickson » Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:51 am
Since this is a new question, and not a follow-up, please post it to a new thread. What specifically has you confused about this question?
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by GMATGuruNY » Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:14 am
duongthang wrote:why in the following from gmatprep, C is correct? pls help

The results of the company's cost-cutting measures are evident in its profits, which increased five percent during the first three months of this year after it fell over the last two years.

A. which increased five percent during the first three months of this year after it fell

B. which had increased five percent during the first three months of this year after it had fallen

C. which have increased five percent during the first three months of this year after falling over the last two years

D. with a five percent increase during the first three months of this year after falling

E. with a five percent increase during the first three months of this year after having fallen
Moving forward, please do not post multiple SCs within a single thread.
C is correct because A, B, D and E each contain at least one error.
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by tanviet » Fri Feb 01, 2013 7:35 am
WHAT I want to say is that

verbless clause is prefered to stand before and so , closely, to the subject of the main clause. However this is not absolute requirement.

the similar situation is that
"consider X Y" is prefered over "consider X to be Y" . This means we choose the first if we have to choose between the 2.

however, "consider X to be Y" do exist in the correct answer in a question from gmatprep.

is my thinking correct? pls confirm Thank you

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by tanviet » Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:43 pm
there are many questions in gmatprep, in which verbaless clause stand behind and so is far from the omited subject. This phenominon makes me think that

the rule that
verbaless clause should stands before main verb and is close to the omitted suject

is not absolute.

the similar situation is

consider x as y/consider x y

when we have to choose betwee 2 above patern, we choos "consider x y"

but "consider x as y" appear in oa in other question from gmatprep.

what do we learn from this situation"

is my thinking correct?

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by vietmoi999 » Sun Aug 18, 2013 7:31 am
GMATGuruNY wrote:
duongthang wrote:Sunspots, vortices of gas associated with strong
electromagnetic activity,// are visible as dark spots on
the surface of the Sun but,have never been sighted on//
the Sun's poles or equator.
(A) are visible as dark spot s on the surface of the
Sun but have never been sighted on
(B) are visible as dark spots that never have been
sighted on the surface of the Sun
(0 appear on the surface of the Sun as dark spots
although never sighted at
(D) appear as dark spots on the surface of the Sun,
although never having been sighted at
(E) appear as dark spots on the Sun's surface,
which have never been sighted on

My question is
why C and D are wrong? why elipsis in C and D , " sighted on the surface of the sun..." is not acceptable.
A VERBLESS CLAUSE is a clause in which the subject and verb are omitted, but their presence is understood.
The omitted verb is usually a form of TO BE.

A verbless although clause must be NEXT TO THE OMITTED SUBJECT.
From the OG for Verbal:
Although eradicated in the United states, POLIO continues elsewhere.
Here, the verbless although clause is correctly placed next to the omitted subject (polio).
Implied meaning:
Although [it has been] eradicated in the United states, Polio continues elsewhere.
The words in brackets are omitted, but their presence is understood.

The following structure would be incorrect:
Polio continues elsewhere, although eradicated in the United States.
Here, the verbless although clause is NOT next to the omitted subject (polio).

In C, although never sighted (a verbless although clause) is NOT next to sunspots (the omitted subject).
D presents the same issue.
Eliminate C and D.
thank you Hunt, your explantion with ilustration from og books is great.

I want to take this case to discuss an important point which I call CORRECT BUT NOT PREFERED.I want experts to discuss more because this is REVOLUTIONIZE OUR WAY OF THINKING OF SC.

there are many cases in which I see a pattern is considered wrong in a sc problem but that pattern appear in oa in other sc problems. In short, a pattern is considered correct sometimes and incorrect at other times. consider the following sc from gmatprep


By merging its two publishing divisions, the company will increase their share of the country's $21 billion book market from 6 percent to 10 percent, a market ranging from obscure textbooks to mass-market paperbacks.
A. their share of the country's $21 billion book market from 6 percent to 10 percent, a market ranging
B. from 6 percent to 10 percent its share of the $21 billion book market in the country, which ranges
C. to 10 percent from 6 percent in their share of the $21 billion book market in the country, a market ranging
D. in its share, from 6 percent to 10 percent, of the $21 billion book market in the country, which ranges
E. to 10 percent from 6 percent its share of the country's $21 billion book market, which ranges

OA IS E, this means gmat prefer "which relative clause" touching the noun modified. "which relative clause" in b is wrong because it dose not touch the noun modified.

however, you can see that "which relative clause" not touching the noun modified appears in many oa in other sc problems in og. (use fuction "find" in pdf version to find "which") . This is clear that this is the case CORRECT BUT NOT PREFERED.

the OA in above sc problem contains the pattern in which direct object is not touching the verb. but direct object not touching the verb is considered wrong in the following question. THIS IS THE CASE CORRECT BUT NOT PREFERED.

IT IS CLEAR THAT GMAT TEST BETTER SENTENCE NOT PERFECT SENTENCE, while we focus our mind on some rules. so, we have to change our way of thinking. this help us excel on sc.

@ Hunt, your explanation is great. But is is possible that verbless clause far from the subject is in the case CORRECT BUT NOT PREFERTED. and we should not eliminate the choice in which verbless is far from the subject.

PLEAE, CONFIRM MY THINKING, THANK YOU , HUNT.

The automotive conveyor-belt system, which Henry
Ford modeled after an assembly-line technique
introduced by Ransom Olds, reduced from a day and
a half to 93 minutes the required time of assembling
a Model T.
(A) from a day and a half to 93 minutes the required
time of assembling a Model T
(B) the time being required to assemble a Model T,
from a day and a half down to 93 minutes
(0 the time being required to assemble a Model T,
a day and a half to 93 minutes
(D) the time required to assemble a Model T from a
day and a half to 93 minutes
(E) from a day and a half to 93 minutes, the time
required for the assembling of a Model T

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by vietmoi999 » Sun Aug 18, 2013 7:39 am
THE PROBLEM here is that verbless clause far from the subject is CORRECT BUT NOT PREFERED. this means if we can avoid this patters, we do so. if there is another choice which is better, this pattern is wrong. but this pattern can be correct if there is no better choice.


so in this specific sc problem, verbless clause is considered wrong because we have better choice. but verbless clause far from the sutject is possibly correct.

if we think this way, every thing is clear. I am sure, there is many oa in other sc problems in og, in which verbless clause is far from the subject. I do not remember, now,. but if you want me to some some of them, please, reply this posting. I will surely reply

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by Needgmat » Sat Jun 18, 2016 9:05 am
Bob sighted his friend at the Hoover Dam. They were both at the Hoover Dam, and Bob saw his friend.
HiCeilidh ,

Just a quick question on this.

In your given example what does THEY refer to? Is THEY refer to Bob and his friend, if so then how come Bob saw his friend if they both are at the Hover dam? THEY can not refer to his friend, because there is no S at the end of the FRIEND. So that means there is only one friend, which is singular right?

Please explain and correct me if I misunderstood.

Thanks,

Kavin

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by sagarock » Thu Sep 15, 2016 3:01 pm
mitch sir,
Although named for the New Mexico site where first discovered in 1932, Clovis points are spear points of longitudinal grooves chipped onto their faces and have been found all over North America.

why this sentence is wrong?

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by GMATGuruNY » Thu Sep 22, 2016 6:04 am
sagarock wrote:mitch sir,
Although named for the New Mexico site where first discovered in 1932, Clovis points are spear points of longitudinal grooves chipped onto their faces and have been found all over North America.

why this sentence is wrong?
where must be followed by a subject and a verb.
Neither the subject nor the verb may be omitted.
where first discovered in 1932
Here, where is not followed by a subject and a verb.

spear points of longitudinal grooves
Here, the prepositional phrase in red implies that grooves are the material from which spear points are made.
This meaning is nonsensical.

Although named for the New Mexico site, Clovis points are spear points.
Here, the portion in red (which is about LOCATION) is illogically contrasted with the portion in blue (which is NOT about location).

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