Hi !
This is going to be a pretty long and detailed post, but please bear with me.
I attempted the GMAT for the 2nd time a few days back. Scored mere 610 : 39(Q) 35(V). Although the score is below average, it is far better than what i had scored first time around i.e. 460 : 36 (Q) 19 (V).
I am a non native speaker, so English is not really my forte. I have an engineering background and so I feel fairly comfortable with Maths. But the poor score in the Quant section intrigues me.
1st Attempt : I took a GMAT PREP as a diagnostic test before I started any preparation and scored 480 (18 V & 39 Q). Prepared for almost 6 months and wrote the exam last December. Scored 460 : 36 (Q) 19 (V). Going into the exam, I realised that i had made some huge mistakes;
(1) I had no sense of time on the D day and ultimately ended up randomly (un intelligent) guessing A LOT of question on both the sections. So timing was (may be still is) an issue for me.
(2) I also had NEVER included AWA in the practice tests earlier. As a result, On the D day, verbal section was literally unintelligible to me.
All in all, I learnt many lessons from this disastrous attempt and decided to work on them for the 2nd time around.
2nd Attempt : I did a lot of analysis on my poor performance in the verbal section, read few of Ron's suggestions on BTG and decided to change my strategy.
(1) I decided to lay utmost importance to understanding the Meaning of the Sentence in SC. During my 1st attempt, I had tried to cram every possible rule given in the Manhattan SC guide. As a matter of fact, I must have gone through that book at least 6 times.
This time around, I decided not to lay equal emphasis on each and every rule but rather look out for the meaning first, then parallelism issues, then S-V agreement and so on. Solved a bunch of questions timed. What I also did was read the explanation of each SC question, whether I got it right or wrong. I did see an improvement in my Verbal score on the practice tests. My score ranged from 28 to 32. Never had I touched 35 in any of the practice tests but I did so in the 2nd attempt.
(2) I also practiced a bunch of CR questions timed (around 20 per day) for a week or so from Aristotle prep CR doc. Although timing was still an issue, I did see an improvement in this section as well.
(3) Never really practiced RC the 2nd time around. Just did the ones I got on practice gmat prep tests.
QUANT : As I had finished OG 11 last year, this time around I decided to do few GMAT club tests and revise the notes that I had prepared. Apart From GMATclub challenges, I paid attention ONLY to Quant questions that I came across from the GMAT prep. I also revised the Number properties book by Manhattan GMAT.
I must add that I feel pretty confident with the basics as well as the concepts tested on the GMAT except for certain areas such as probability, work rate, time distance and the weird sets/grids problems. I should also confess that I still have timing issues as things don't click for me at the spur of the moment although I am able to crack the very same problem untimed.
My last 3 GMAT prep scores are as follows (taken in that order):
GMAT Prep I : 650 -> 47(Q) & 32(V)
GMAT Prep I (repeat) : 580 --> 40(Q) & 28(V)
GMAT Prep II : 620 --> 45(Q) & 30(V)
I don't know where I am going wrong. My Quant score is still the same as the one I got last year in the Diagnostic test. I don't expect a 50 or 51, but I am sure that I can get atleast 45.
Also, What else should i do, or continue doing in order to improve my verbal score ?
I am distraught at the moment. My target is atleast 700 and I plan to take another shot at this exam in the first week of September.
Your opinions are valuable, Please Help !
spb
2nd attempt : 610 ....Experts please help !
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- vineeshp
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You have improved by a whopping 150 points from ur initial attempt. Isn't that great? There is nothing to be depressed about. Congrats on that. It will be great motivation for many test takers.
You can give it another try but I would request you to consider this. Your best Verbal score came in the actual attempt. So what is your mindset going to be if you get a 45 on the Quant but your verbal reduces? And if you still get 610-620 with a better quant, are you going to be happy? If yes, then give the test by all means.
You should try to work through the 198 problems set. It really throws some light on some hard problems. It will help you in the quest for a 45. You can get it on this forum. Just search for it.
You can give it another try but I would request you to consider this. Your best Verbal score came in the actual attempt. So what is your mindset going to be if you get a 45 on the Quant but your verbal reduces? And if you still get 610-620 with a better quant, are you going to be happy? If yes, then give the test by all means.
You should try to work through the 198 problems set. It really throws some light on some hard problems. It will help you in the quest for a 45. You can get it on this forum. Just search for it.
Vineesh,
Just telling you what I know and think. I am not the expert.![Smile :)](./images/smilies/smile.png)
Just telling you what I know and think. I am not the expert.
![Smile :)](./images/smilies/smile.png)
Thanks vineeshp !!
I hope my verbal score doesnt fall back again. I realised the mistakes i made first time around and have worked my way up in verbal. I still have a long way to go, though.
Quant section is where i need the most improvement right now. I will certainly hunt for the documents u've mentioned. Btw, are they a collection of GMATPrep Questions?
I hope my verbal score doesnt fall back again. I realised the mistakes i made first time around and have worked my way up in verbal. I still have a long way to go, though.
Quant section is where i need the most improvement right now. I will certainly hunt for the documents u've mentioned. Btw, are they a collection of GMATPrep Questions?
Must say that you have shown a commendable improvement in the Verbal area... it is a motivation for me...gave the GMAT today..scored a V32 today (https://www.beatthegmat.com/help-needed- ... 87574.html)...
Murphy's Law- If something can go wrong, it will. I say he was an optimist.
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received a pm.
my first comment here is that you've already achieved an impressive improvement -- 16 points on your verbal score! -- yet that doesn't register in your writing at all. in other words, this sort of improvement is the kind of thing that should, at least a little bit, decrease your stress level and add to your confidence.
hopefully that has happened and you just didn't bother to write about it.
in terms of stress, one suggestion that i've given many students is to set a goal score that is NOT the round number 700.
round numbers tend to create extreme stress for people. for instance, consider the following thought experiment:
* let's say that your goal is to make $100,000 per year, and that you are currently earning $95,000 per year. how would you feel?
* now let's say that your goal is to make $95,000 per year, and that you are currently earning $90,000 per year. how would you feel?
for the vast majority of people -- weirdly enough -- the first of these two situations creates a feeling of failure and underachievement, while the second creates a feeling of "wow i'm almost there".
the same thing usually tends to happen with a goal score of 700 on the gmat; like other round numbers, that goal score tends to create a constant feeling of failure/underachievement.
even something simple like setting a goal score of 690 can do wonders for your overall attitude.
here's an important fact that i don't think very many people on here have stated:
IF YOU MISS SIGNIFICANTLY MORE DS THAN PS, THEN MATH IS NOT THE ISSUE.
instead, if you have this discrepancy, then your problem is one of strategy: basically, you haven't really taken the time to fully internalize the functionality and strategy of DS problems. as a result, you are almost certainly not missing these DS problems because of the math itself -- you are probably missing them because of other things, such as not really understanding the format of DS, not trying to find the correct quantity, etc.
for more on this issue, please watch the first part of the APRIL 14, 2011, recording at the following link:
https://www.manhattangmat.com/thursdays-with-ron.cfm
if you miss significantly more PS than DS, on the other hand, then the math itself is more likely to be the issue.
your only goal with the essays is to make them routine and effortless -- a goal that you can only achieve by actually doing the essay each time you take a practice test.
this is one practically universal weakness of printed reference books -- because they are printed books, they can't really emphasize or deemphasize particular information. as a result, many people approach SC with the (completely mistaken) idea that every single thing in the SC guide is of equal importance.
why are you doing problems untimed?
DO NOT, EVER, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, WORK GMAT-STYLE PROBLEMS UNTIMED!
if you do so, then you are *actively training yourself* to solve these problems in an unlimited amount of time. therefore, the fact that "things don't click for you at the spur of the moment" is at least partially a RESULT of the fact that you are doing problems untimed -- i.e., things aren't clicking quickly because you are giving them permission NOT to click quickly.
YOU MUST PRACTICE WITH NORMAL TIMING RESTRICTIONS AT ALL TIMES.
also, watch the FEBRUARY 4, 2010, video at the same link posted above -- if you truly take the time to master the "backup methods" given in that lecture, then those methods will probably be enough to bridge the gap between where you are now and where you want to be in quant.
my first comment here is that you've already achieved an impressive improvement -- 16 points on your verbal score! -- yet that doesn't register in your writing at all. in other words, this sort of improvement is the kind of thing that should, at least a little bit, decrease your stress level and add to your confidence.
hopefully that has happened and you just didn't bother to write about it.
in terms of stress, one suggestion that i've given many students is to set a goal score that is NOT the round number 700.
round numbers tend to create extreme stress for people. for instance, consider the following thought experiment:
* let's say that your goal is to make $100,000 per year, and that you are currently earning $95,000 per year. how would you feel?
* now let's say that your goal is to make $95,000 per year, and that you are currently earning $90,000 per year. how would you feel?
for the vast majority of people -- weirdly enough -- the first of these two situations creates a feeling of failure and underachievement, while the second creates a feeling of "wow i'm almost there".
the same thing usually tends to happen with a goal score of 700 on the gmat; like other round numbers, that goal score tends to create a constant feeling of failure/underachievement.
even something simple like setting a goal score of 690 can do wonders for your overall attitude.
"below average"? which average?spb wrote:I attempted the GMAT for the 2nd time a few days back. Scored mere 610 : 39(Q) 35(V). Although the score is below average, it is far better than what i had scored first time around i.e. 460 : 36 (Q) 19 (V).
where are you having most of your difficulties in the math section?I am a non native speaker, so English is not really my forte. I have an engineering background and so I feel fairly comfortable with Maths. But the poor score in the Quant section intrigues me.
here's an important fact that i don't think very many people on here have stated:
IF YOU MISS SIGNIFICANTLY MORE DS THAN PS, THEN MATH IS NOT THE ISSUE.
instead, if you have this discrepancy, then your problem is one of strategy: basically, you haven't really taken the time to fully internalize the functionality and strategy of DS problems. as a result, you are almost certainly not missing these DS problems because of the math itself -- you are probably missing them because of other things, such as not really understanding the format of DS, not trying to find the correct quantity, etc.
for more on this issue, please watch the first part of the APRIL 14, 2011, recording at the following link:
https://www.manhattangmat.com/thursdays-with-ron.cfm
if you miss significantly more PS than DS, on the other hand, then the math itself is more likely to be the issue.
bad move.(2) I also had NEVER included AWA in the practice tests earlier. As a result, On the D day, verbal section was literally unintelligible to me.
your only goal with the essays is to make them routine and effortless -- a goal that you can only achieve by actually doing the essay each time you take a practice test.
ya, that sort of approach doesn't work.During my 1st attempt, I had tried to cram every possible rule given in the Manhattan SC guide. As a matter of fact, I must have gone through that book at least 6 times.
this is one practically universal weakness of printed reference books -- because they are printed books, they can't really emphasize or deemphasize particular information. as a result, many people approach SC with the (completely mistaken) idea that every single thing in the SC guide is of equal importance.
so that's working for you, then. rather splendidly, it seems.This time around, I decided not to lay equal emphasis on each and every rule but rather look out for the meaning first, then parallelism issues, then S-V agreement and so on. Solved a bunch of questions timed. What I also did was read the explanation of each SC question, whether I got it right or wrong. I did see an improvement in my Verbal score on the practice tests. My score ranged from 28 to 32. Never had I touched 35 in any of the practice tests but I did so in the 2nd attempt.
you're doing problems untimed?I must add that I feel pretty confident with the basics as well as the concepts tested on the GMAT except for certain areas such as probability, work rate, time distance and the weird sets/grids problems. I should also confess that I still have timing issues as things don't click for me at the spur of the moment although I am able to crack the very same problem untimed.
why are you doing problems untimed?
DO NOT, EVER, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, WORK GMAT-STYLE PROBLEMS UNTIMED!
if you do so, then you are *actively training yourself* to solve these problems in an unlimited amount of time. therefore, the fact that "things don't click for you at the spur of the moment" is at least partially a RESULT of the fact that you are doing problems untimed -- i.e., things aren't clicking quickly because you are giving them permission NOT to click quickly.
YOU MUST PRACTICE WITH NORMAL TIMING RESTRICTIONS AT ALL TIMES.
see my question above re: DS vs PS.I don't know where I am going wrong. My Quant score is still the same as the one I got last year in the Diagnostic test. I don't expect a 50 or 51, but I am sure that I can get atleast 45.
also, watch the FEBRUARY 4, 2010, video at the same link posted above -- if you truly take the time to master the "backup methods" given in that lecture, then those methods will probably be enough to bridge the gap between where you are now and where you want to be in quant.
you have already improved your verbal score by 16 points, so you should probably continue doing some version of what you are doing now. don't mess with success, and all that.Also, What else should i do, or continue doing in order to improve my verbal score ?
Ron has been teaching various standardized tests for 20 years.
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Hey Ron,
I can't thank you enough ! You have no idea how helpful your posts (Opinions/suggestions/explanations) have been. I owe the 16 point jump to you. I am certainly more confident today dealing with the GMAT verbal section than i have been ever before.
Bang on !
This is what i have been doing right from day one of my GMAT preparation. The only practice i did (for Quant)under timed condition was when i attempted GMATPREP tests. Perhaps, this is my Achilles heel !
I can't thank you enough ! You have no idea how helpful your posts (Opinions/suggestions/explanations) have been. I owe the 16 point jump to you. I am certainly more confident today dealing with the GMAT verbal section than i have been ever before.
I don't intend to say that 610 is a poor/average/good GMAT Score. It's just that I belong to a very competitive pool of applicants (Indian/Female/IT). And thus a 610 doesnt really help my case, I think."below average"? which average?
I usually get approximately the same no. of questions incorrect on the Quant section (well actually, a few more of DS). So i wouldnt say that i have any major issues, as such, with strategies for DS.where are you having most of your difficulties in the math section?
here's an important fact that i don't think very many people on here have stated:
IF YOU MISS SIGNIFICANTLY MORE DS THAN PS, THEN MATH IS NOT THE ISSUE.
you're doing problems untimed?
why are you doing problems untimed?
Bang on !
This is what i have been doing right from day one of my GMAT preparation. The only practice i did (for Quant)under timed condition was when i attempted GMATPREP tests. Perhaps, this is my Achilles heel !
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- lunarpower
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great to hear.spb wrote:Hey Ron,
I can't thank you enough ! You have no idea how helpful your posts (Opinions/suggestions/explanations) have been. I owe the 16 point jump to you. I am certainly more confident today dealing with the GMAT verbal section than i have been ever before.
good luck from this point onward.
Ron has been teaching various standardized tests for 20 years.
--
Pueden hacerle preguntas a Ron en castellano
Potete chiedere domande a Ron in italiano
On peut poser des questions à Ron en français
Voit esittää kysymyksiä Ron:lle myös suomeksi
--
Quand on se sent bien dans un vêtement, tout peut arriver. Un bon vêtement, c'est un passeport pour le bonheur.
Yves Saint-Laurent
--
Learn more about ron
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Pueden hacerle preguntas a Ron en castellano
Potete chiedere domande a Ron in italiano
On peut poser des questions à Ron en français
Voit esittää kysymyksiä Ron:lle myös suomeksi
--
Quand on se sent bien dans un vêtement, tout peut arriver. Un bon vêtement, c'est un passeport pour le bonheur.
Yves Saint-Laurent
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Learn more about ron
Ron - I must say whenever I read the way you tackle and answer questions on GMAT psychology, I remember Sigmond Freud's articles.....lunarpower wrote: in terms of stress, one suggestion that i've given many students is to set a goal score that is NOT the round number 700.
round numbers tend to create extreme stress for people. for instance, consider the following thought experiment:
* let's say that your goal is to make $100,000 per year, and that you are currently earning $95,000 per year. how would you feel?
* now let's say that your goal is to make $95,000 per year, and that you are currently earning $90,000 per year. how would you feel?
for the vast majority of people -- weirdly enough -- the first of these two situations creates a feeling of failure and underachievement, while the second creates a feeling of "wow i'm almost there".
the same thing usually tends to happen with a goal score of 700 on the gmat; like other round numbers, that goal score tends to create a constant feeling of failure/underachievement.
even something simple like setting a goal score of 690 can do wonders for your overall attitude.
I guess you will write a book on psychometric tests one day and that will be a best-seller !!!
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yikes, you are comparing me to a guy who basically just wrote down whatever thoughts he had about psychology after taking tons of drugs. |: (seriously, that's basically what freud did.)krishp84 wrote:Ron - I must say whenever I read the way you tackle and answer questions on GMAT psychology, I remember Sigmond Freud's articles.....
i do like these tests ... a lot. i think they're fun. (the fun is not so much in *taking* them -- although i enjoy that, too -- as in seeing how they are designed.)I guess you will write a book on psychometric tests one day and that will be a best-seller !!!
Ron has been teaching various standardized tests for 20 years.
--
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On peut poser des questions à Ron en français
Voit esittää kysymyksiä Ron:lle myös suomeksi
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Quand on se sent bien dans un vêtement, tout peut arriver. Un bon vêtement, c'est un passeport pour le bonheur.
Yves Saint-Laurent
--
Learn more about ron
--
Pueden hacerle preguntas a Ron en castellano
Potete chiedere domande a Ron in italiano
On peut poser des questions à Ron en français
Voit esittää kysymyksiä Ron:lle myös suomeksi
--
Quand on se sent bien dans un vêtement, tout peut arriver. Un bon vêtement, c'est un passeport pour le bonheur.
Yves Saint-Laurent
--
Learn more about ron
I am not comparing you, but the lateral thinking approach ....hahaha any way good to know you are not on drugslunarpower wrote: yikes, you are comparing me to a guy who basically just wrote down whatever thoughts he had about psychology after taking tons of drugs. |: (seriously, that's basically what freud did.)
![Smile :-)](./images/smilies/smile.png)