According to "An Amateur's Approach to GMAT SC"
3.3.8. That ( page 25 )
That modifies the nouns. It refers to the immediate previous noun in the previous clause. It is a restrictive clause and provides essential information about the subject of a sentence.
e.g.: The big GMAT book that is kept on the table is good.
Note: No comma is used! "that" here refers to "the particular (definite/fixed) book on the table"
That can refer to singular or plural. Refer SC-1000#193/ 379
In good years, the patchwork of green fields that surround the San Joaquin Valley town bustles with farm workers, many of them in the area just for the season.
In the above example, what that refers to depends on the verb that follows it.
If the sentence reads, ’a patchwork of greenfields that surround’. Here, ’that’ refers to ’greenfields’.
If the sentence reads, ’a patchwork of greenfields that surrounds’. Here, ’that’ refers to ’patchwork’.
many of them or many of whom
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guys, stuart is right on in his analysis of this problem, in both of his assertions:
(1) if there is to be a preferred choice, that choice must be (b).
... but more importantly,
(2) this is a bad question from a notoriously unreliable source.
note that stuart's final decision is based on the famously unreliable metric of pronoun ambiguity (i say "famously unreliable" because there are all kinds of official answers that contain ambiguous pronouns but are still correct).
therefore, not only is this question dubious to begin with, but it also teaches you -- wrongly! -- that pronoun ambiguity is an automatically dispositive issue, on par with genuine grammatical errors. that's a dangerous way to think, and a way that will consistently get you incorrect answers on the aforementioned problems (on which the correct answers contain technically ambiguous pronouns).
for starters, check out #19 in the blue second edition og verbal supplement (#21 if you have the purple first edition), in which the correct answer contains a technically ambiguous instance of "they".
there are plenty more where that came from, so beware of using pronoun ambiguity as anything but an absolute last resort, in problems in which it constitutes the only difference between two remaining choices.
(1) if there is to be a preferred choice, that choice must be (b).
... but more importantly,
(2) this is a bad question from a notoriously unreliable source.
note that stuart's final decision is based on the famously unreliable metric of pronoun ambiguity (i say "famously unreliable" because there are all kinds of official answers that contain ambiguous pronouns but are still correct).
therefore, not only is this question dubious to begin with, but it also teaches you -- wrongly! -- that pronoun ambiguity is an automatically dispositive issue, on par with genuine grammatical errors. that's a dangerous way to think, and a way that will consistently get you incorrect answers on the aforementioned problems (on which the correct answers contain technically ambiguous pronouns).
for starters, check out #19 in the blue second edition og verbal supplement (#21 if you have the purple first edition), in which the correct answer contains a technically ambiguous instance of "they".
there are plenty more where that came from, so beware of using pronoun ambiguity as anything but an absolute last resort, in problems in which it constitutes the only difference between two remaining choices.
Ron has been teaching various standardized tests for 20 years.
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Pueden hacerle preguntas a Ron en castellano
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On peut poser des questions à Ron en français
Voit esittää kysymyksiä Ron:lle myös suomeksi
--
Quand on se sent bien dans un vêtement, tout peut arriver. Un bon vêtement, c'est un passeport pour le bonheur.
Yves Saint-Laurent
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How do we decide what is that modifying here. Greenfields or Patchwork?
Also, B starts an indep clause and it isn't properly connected to the previous clause. How is B correct then?
Also, B starts an indep clause and it isn't properly connected to the previous clause. How is B correct then?
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The verb connected to the relative pronoun will dictate whether that pronoun is singular or plural.[email protected] wrote:How do we decide what is that modifying here. Greenfields or Patchwork?
the patchwork of green fields that surround the San Joaquin Valley
the verb here is "surround," which agrees with a plural subject. So we know "that" must have a plural antecedent. The closest plural antecedent is "green fields."
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Hi David,
Ignoring the subordinate clause "that surround the San Joaquin Valley town"
I have extracted the main gist of the statement :
(A)The patchwork bustles with farm workers, many of them in the area just for the season
(B)The patchwork bustles with farm workers, many of whom are in the area just for the season
(C)The patchwork bustles with farm workers, many of who are in the area just for the season
(D)Incorrect for using plural Verb for singular subject Patch work
(E)The patchwork bustles with farm workers, many are in the area just for the season
I think the modifier after comma is acting as noun modifer and modifying "Farm Workers"
So we need a clause to do so
In this light (A) is incorrect and in (E) the referent for many is not clear
so we are left with B & C or precisely - many of who Vs Many of Whom
We use Whom to refer object of preposition
whereas we use "who" to refer the subject
But on doing some search I found below statements fron Nytimes
In a typical day, Ms. West might send instant and e-mail messages to patrons, many of who do their research online rather than in the library.
who is referring to Patrons which is acting as an object in the first statement
Another statement from Nytimes
For decades the residents of Hasankeyf, many of whom speak Kurdish, Arabic and Turkish and make a living herding sheep or weaving rugs, have lived with the knowledge that, at some point, they would be forced from their homes.
Here "whom" is used to refer back to the subject residents.
So to me both B & C - look good.
Also - In the original modifer
the patchwork of green fields that surround the San Joaquin Valley - why can't "that" refer to fields as it make sense that green fields are surrounding the whole city
Please help!
Ignoring the subordinate clause "that surround the San Joaquin Valley town"
I have extracted the main gist of the statement :
(A)The patchwork bustles with farm workers, many of them in the area just for the season
(B)The patchwork bustles with farm workers, many of whom are in the area just for the season
(C)The patchwork bustles with farm workers, many of who are in the area just for the season
(D)Incorrect for using plural Verb for singular subject Patch work
(E)The patchwork bustles with farm workers, many are in the area just for the season
I think the modifier after comma is acting as noun modifer and modifying "Farm Workers"
So we need a clause to do so
In this light (A) is incorrect and in (E) the referent for many is not clear
so we are left with B & C or precisely - many of who Vs Many of Whom
We use Whom to refer object of preposition
whereas we use "who" to refer the subject
But on doing some search I found below statements fron Nytimes
In a typical day, Ms. West might send instant and e-mail messages to patrons, many of who do their research online rather than in the library.
who is referring to Patrons which is acting as an object in the first statement
Another statement from Nytimes
For decades the residents of Hasankeyf, many of whom speak Kurdish, Arabic and Turkish and make a living herding sheep or weaving rugs, have lived with the knowledge that, at some point, they would be forced from their homes.
Here "whom" is used to refer back to the subject residents.
So to me both B & C - look good.
Also - In the original modifer
the patchwork of green fields that surround the San Joaquin Valley - why can't "that" refer to fields as it make sense that green fields are surrounding the whole city
Please help!
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Well, it looks the Times goofed here. It should be "many of whom." Note that in this construction, "whom" is the object of the preposition "of" irrespective of whether the entire phrase is modifying a subject or an object.But on doing some search I found below statements fron Nytimes
In a typical day, Ms. West might send instant and e-mail messages to patrons, many of who do their research online rather than in the library.
Two examples: The residents, many of whom are angry about the lack of hot water, have filed a protest. Here "many of whom" is part of a relative clause that modifies the subject, "the residents." Within the modifier, "whom" is an object of the preposition "of."
The landlord fielded many complaints from the residents, many of whom are angry about the lack of hot water. Now "many of whom" is part of a relative clause modifying the object "the residents." But again, "whom" is an object" of the preposition "of" within the modifier.
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"that" does refer to "green fields."Also - In the original modifer
the patchwork of green fields that surround the San Joaquin Valley - why can't "that" refer to fields as it make sense that green fields are surrounding the whole city
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Thanks David for the reply.
I have got two more doubts :
1> Where do we use "Many of who" - Is this a valid construction?
2> As you stated : "that" does refer to "green fields." - If this is the case how can the answer choice B be right, because B uses the verb singular Surrounds to modify plural fields.
I have got two more doubts :
1> Where do we use "Many of who" - Is this a valid construction?
2> As you stated : "that" does refer to "green fields." - If this is the case how can the answer choice B be right, because B uses the verb singular Surrounds to modify plural fields.
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1) So far as I can tell, never. In the construction "many of whom," "whom" is the object of a prepositional phrase. (We'd only use "who" if it were functioning as the subject of a verb.)divuu.verma wrote:Thanks David for the reply.
I have got two more doubts :
1> Where do we use "Many of who" - Is this a valid construction?
2> As you stated : "that" does refer to "green fields." - If this is the case how can the answer choice B be right, because B uses the verb singular Surrounds to modify plural fields.
2) The consensus here is that this example is from a questionable source. (The OA, evidently, was given as A. Ron and Stuart, in their discussion, decided that B was better. I'm less interested in this question than in extracting some grammatical understanding that can be applied to official problems.)
The important thing to recognize is that the verb corresponding to "that" will dictate whether "that" requires a plural or singular antecedent.
If I write the patchwork of green fields that surround, "surround" is a plural verb, and so "that" should have a plural antecedent. (green fields)
If I write the patchwork of green fields that surrounds, "surrounds" is a singular verb, and so "that" should have a singular antecedent. (the patchwork)
The logic of the sentence will help settle which construction is preferable. Just know that either can potentially work. (If this is unclear let me know - I'll dig up an official problem that can illustrate the concept.)
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Thanks a ton David - that clears the confusion.
Though Its been claimed as one of the GMAT Prep question, I will leave this question here only.
Yes it will be great to seal the concept with an example.
Thanks Again
Though Its been claimed as one of the GMAT Prep question, I will leave this question here only.
Yes it will be great to seal the concept with an example.
Thanks Again
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Sure thing. Look at these two options:divuu.verma wrote:Thanks a ton David - that clears the confusion.
Though Its been claimed as one of the GMAT Prep question, I will leave this question here only.
Yes it will be great to seal the concept with an example.
Thanks Again
For many revisionist historians, Christopher Columbus has come to personify devastation and enslavement in the name of progress that has decimated native peoples of the Western Hemisphere.
The verb with "that" is "has," so we know "that" requires a singular antecedent. The closest option? "Progress." But now this sentence is asserting that progress has decimated native peoples. Not terribly logical.
For many revisionist historians, Christopher Columbus has come to personify devastation the devastation and enslavement in the name of progress that have decimated the native peoples of the Western Hemisphere.
The verb with "that" is "have" so we know "that" requires a plural plural antecedent. The closest option: "devastation and enslavement." It makes a lot more sense to claim that devastation and enslavement have decimated the native peoples than to claim that progress has decimated the native peoples, so the latter option is the OA. The distinction here is rooted more in logic than in grammar.